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LFR information and experiences

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LFR information and experiences

Postby econ21 » Wed Nov 30, 2011 3:22 am

Maybe it would be good to have a thread to collect information and experiences about the new Looking for Raid feature? I was initially very sceptical about it (5 man PUGs can be a nightmare, and the coordination issues arising by multiplying that by 5 mean that the total nightmare from 25 man PUGs could well be more than the sum of its parts). However, as someone whose is likely to need a lot of time before I can down the regular raid in a guild, it now seems a potentially fun way of grinding VPs (and picking up some decent drops in the interim).

One question is how LFR will differ from the normal raid? Reading Blizzard's statement that LFR is supposed to be about as difficult as Baradin Hold puzzled me. I can understand how reducing damage and hitpoints can make a raid easier (like the Firelands nerf). But the BH raids are very simple: there are a couple of mechanics you need to know, that can be explained in a couple of sentences. By contrast, the Firelands bosses have more numerous and more complicated mechanics that if everyone does not get, can wipe the raid even with the nerf. Are the LFR bosses going to have the same mechanics as the normal bosses? Or will they not do certain things (rather like heroic bosses sometimes have abilities that they don't have on regular).

Another question is how people find the LFR experience? Are people patient? Do people keep quitting and new people coming? Who leads?

I rather suspect that early on, the experience will be good - as the gear requirement initially limits access to a more select sample, everyone is learning and willing to put up with others learning too, and people want the loot more, so will are not just racing through for their VPs.
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Re: LFR information and experiences

Postby Skye1013 » Wed Nov 30, 2011 3:33 am

As for using it to "grind VP" you only receive the VP once (I'm assuming per raid? So maybe 500 total for both parts of DS.)

I'm not sure how the fights compare to normal, but the mechanics (as a whole) aren't so demanding that you can't just power through most bosses. You HAVE to know you can only kill one slime on Yor'sahj (3rd boss, DS1) (and knowing which slime takes priority is key.) And you HAVE to avoid the spikes for p1 of Hagara, and you HAVE to create a chain to the "lightning rods" for p2. For 2nd boss, General whatsit, we had one hunter messing with the orb, everyone else stayed on the boss. And 1st boss, most people ignored the shards (they landed close to enough people that they didn't really need to stack up around it or whatever is supposed to happen with that mechanic.)

It generally only took maybe one or two wipes (if that) per boss. A few more for the 3rd boss, simply because people couldn't decide which slime to take out (first try had people on all 3 slimes, not realizing they heal the other slimes once reaching 50%, and become immune once one dies.) I'm sure after a week or so, most people will have at least seen the fights, and it will be equiv of 1-2 sentences to explain to new people (just like BH.)
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Re: LFR information and experiences

Postby econ21 » Wed Nov 30, 2011 4:06 am

Skye1013 wrote:As for using it to "grind VP" you only receive the VP once (I'm assuming per raid? So maybe 500 total for both parts of DS.)


How does the VP cap work now? It used to be that you could only get half your weekly cap from non-Zul 5 mans. Is there still such a restriction?

If not, I doubt LFR will be an efficient way to grind VPs, but it might be a more fun way to get some of them. After repetitively running N Zuls for the last few months (where N is a very large number), getting my weekly VPs from a combination of LFR, BH, 5-mans and whatever I can get from regular T13 bosses looks attractive to me right now.
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Re: LFR information and experiences

Postby Skye1013 » Wed Nov 30, 2011 4:24 am

You get 150 VP per LFD, regardless of which HCs get run. You have a 1k cap per week (up from 950), obtained through any VP means. No more "only 7 regular HCs or 7 trolls." Each LFR gives 250 VP, but can only be acquired once per week (I don't know if that's per raid set, or just once total since the 2nd half isn't available on LFR until next week.)

I don't remember what normal/heroic raids give per boss, but I want to say 150.

So if you get your one clear of LFR per week, and my assumptions about VP per raid boss is correct, you'd need any combination of 5 heroics/raid bosses to cap.

LFR -> 250
5 heroics/raid bosses -> 150 x 5 = 750
250 + 750 = 1000 (I can do maths!)
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Re: LFR information and experiences

Postby Levantine » Wed Nov 30, 2011 4:52 am

People were cycling through pretty regularly when I did one, but it didn't slow down the group too much from what I could tell, unless you're used to lightning recoveries, but then why would you be in lfr if that was the case. Also, its totally tuned for 25 numbskulls. My group was god awful at yor'sahj and we still one shot it with no issues. I cam definitely see me using it to grab some easy interim loot and low stress valor when I can't raid.
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Re: LFR information and experiences

Postby poptart » Wed Nov 30, 2011 5:05 am

I jumped in last night and joined a raid that was doing Hagara.

First pull was a 30% wipe because how they explained the ice walls was wonky. Second pull killed the boss with only like 3 people dead and we had replaced like 6 people inbetween the two attempts.

Tuning is excessively easy. I can very easily see it being clearable by just about any group with half a brain by week three or so. An easy way to get some upgrades to help out with regular raids.

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Re: LFR information and experiences

Postby econ21 » Wed Nov 30, 2011 5:10 am

How does raid leadership work? I guess it's like LFD, you tick a box to queue as leader and the LFR tool picks one? I wonder what sort of folk are brave enough to tick the box.

What did you do with the one tank fights? LFR identifies two, did the two tanks sort it out amongst themselves, the raid leader pick, both fight for threat or what?

If the raids are undertuned in terms of dps requirements, I wonder if there is a virtue in having both tanks stay tank spec (so the OT can step in should the MT die)? It seems that the death of a solo tank is one of the few things almost guaranteed to wipe a raid, whereas the increase in my dps from switching to dps spec is modest.
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Re: LFR information and experiences

Postby Skye1013 » Wed Nov 30, 2011 5:17 am

This may be just because of it being new and everyone trying it out... but a <1 min queue as a dps is phenomenal!

And yeah, the changeout rate was pretty high, but as Lev said, it didn't hinder progression. We had like 5 wipes on Yor'sahj because the person that took charge couldn't decide which slime was most important (and we kept getting purple, so heals were effective killing people.)

Not sure about leadership, I'm assuming it's random (first queued?) if nobody selects the box.
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Re: LFR information and experiences

Postby Skye1013 » Wed Nov 30, 2011 5:21 am

econ21 wrote:What did you do with the one tank fights? LFR identifies two, did the two tanks sort it out amongst themselves, the raid leader pick, both fight for threat or what?

If the raids are undertuned in terms of dps requirements, I wonder if there is a virtue in having both tanks stay tank spec (so the OT can step in should the MT die)? It seems that the death of a solo tank is one of the few things almost guaranteed to wipe a raid, whereas the increase in my dps from switching to dps spec is modest.

I don't know about other groups, but we had a feral tank that was placing higher than half the dps, so he switched over for 1 tank fights. I'm sure it will work out differently for each group depending on personalities. And generally if something can kill the tank, your healers are falling down on the job, or it's already a wipe in progress.
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Re: LFR information and experiences

Postby Epimer » Wed Nov 30, 2011 7:57 am

Just a quick stupid question about LFR: is the only drawback to running the same boss multiple times that you'll be ineligible for loot/VP after the first time?

I'm thinking of the scenario where my guild plans to join as a group later this week and I use LFR today; in that case, would I still be perfectly able to do the guild run later in the week (just with no more loot available to me)?
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Re: LFR information and experiences

Postby KysenMurrin » Wed Nov 30, 2011 8:02 am

You'd auto-pass on loot but otherwise be fine.

I'm not sure whether I want to give this a go tonight or not. Might be some good loot available, but still not sure about random people or about doing it on 25 man, which I don't like much.
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Re: LFR information and experiences

Postby Taikishi » Wed Nov 30, 2011 8:26 am

The one I was in last night was phenomenal - completely the opposite of my PTR experiences. We had three wipes that I recall: one on Yor'sahj trash because an extra group added, one on Yor'sahj because we didn't stack for red, and one on Hagara because of a pull while explaining the fight. No one complained at the wipes, no one bailed, everyone did their jobs well, and it was a thing of beauty watching 25 people carry lightning, as a group, from conductor to conductor. We even had a lockbox drop and everyone rolled greed. It helped I had done the fights on PTR, but people were appreciative of me explaining the fights and it was a blast!

I'm expecting worse for the second half because I've not been past Ultraxion because people were having UI issues with Heroic Will on PTR
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Re: LFR information and experiences

Postby Nikachelle » Wed Nov 30, 2011 8:31 am

Well the reason I expect LFR is going so well right now is it's filled with people who are almost completely covered in true Firelands gear. You're currently raiding with actual raiders. Give it a few more days when the "casual" crowd has caught up to speed ilevel-wise and the results may be very, very different.
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Re: LFR information and experiences

Postby Tev » Wed Nov 30, 2011 8:35 am

Replace the word casual with the phrase "people who want to be carried and only play for loot" and Nika said pretty much what I believe
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Re: LFR information and experiences

Postby Nikachelle » Wed Nov 30, 2011 8:36 am

I was trying to be polite!
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