Remove Advertisements

Anonymous vs Zetas Cartel, rest of alphabet put on notice.

Invisusira's playground

Moderators: Aergis, Invisusira

Re: Anonymous vs Zetas Cartel, rest of alphabet put on notic

Postby Klaudandus » Mon Oct 31, 2011 10:15 am

There has to be a sort of paradigm shift, Anonymous unleashing the information could be the push needed for it to happen, even if it includes collateral damage in innocent casualties. But the thing is, there already have been innocent bystanders killed in their turf wars, and this has been going on for years already...

I just want something to happen.
The Element of Forum Hyperbole
Image
---
Flüttershy - Draenei Protection Paladin, Aerie Peak
Klaudandus - BE Protection Paladin, Feathermoon (Semi-retired)
User avatar
Klaudandus
 
Posts: 11100
Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2009 7:08 am
Location: Texas' Armpit

Re: Anonymous vs Zetas Cartel, rest of alphabet put on notic

Postby theckhd » Mon Oct 31, 2011 10:18 am

There's also a strategic advantage to be had by invading/occupying/annexing Mexico. Just think how much smaller the border would get! Instead of a fence along the entire southern borders of Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, and California, we could make a much shorter fence along the borders between Mexico and Guatemala/Belize! And with the savings, we could make the fence twice as tall!

(/sarcasm, of course. But I do wish we would do more to help support and rehabilitate the Mexican government; nobody should live under the levels of fear and corruption that many of the citizens of Mexico do.)
"Theck, Bringer of Numbers and Pounding Headaches," courtesy of Grehn|Skipjack.
MATLAB 5.x, Simcraft 6.x, Call to Arms 6.0, Talent Spec & Glyph Guide 5.x, Blog: Sacred Duty
User avatar
theckhd
Moderator
 
Posts: 7793
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:06 pm
Location: Harrisburg, PA

Re: Anonymous vs Zetas Cartel, rest of alphabet put on notic

Postby Arnock » Mon Oct 31, 2011 10:21 am

I suppose that annexing Mexico and declaring all Mexican citizens American citizens would be ONE way of solving the illegal immigration debate...
Image
Courage not of this earth in your eyes
Faith from far beyond lies deep inside
User avatar
Arnock
 
Posts: 3665
Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2008 6:36 pm
Location: Everywhere and nowhere

Re: Anonymous vs Zetas Cartel, rest of alphabet put on notic

Postby Gab » Mon Oct 31, 2011 11:11 am

Klaudandus wrote:There has to be a sort of paradigm shift, Anonymous unleashing the information could be the push needed for it to happen, even if it includes collateral damage in innocent casualties. But the thing is, there already have been innocent bystanders killed in their turf wars, and this has been going on for years already...

I just want something to happen.


I would also like to see something happen, but I'm not sure Anon releasing information is that something.

The paradigm shift that needs to be made is how society views illegal drugs. Our govement should just legalize/decriminalize drugs. Take drugs off the black market and you not only control the quality of the drugs being consumed but you also eliminate the income of these cartels and gangs.

Also I'm sure the government would slap a hefty "sin" tax on the newly legal/decriminalized drugs that could be used for programs to help rehabilitate those affected by drug addiction. Win-win imo.

I'm not sure about anyone else but if a person I knew was an addict I would feel a lot better that that person has the ability to buy government regulated drugs from a government regulated source than going and buying it from some criminal element. And that the newly installed rehabilitation programs/research (from taxing the drugs) might be able to help them.

Sorry done ramblimg/derailing, I really just don't think Anon is going about this the right way. One "terrorist" group terrorizing another. Anon should just go on some crusade for legalization in the United States.
User avatar
Gab
 
Posts: 690
Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2010 10:54 am
Location: Wish you were here

Re: Anonymous vs Zetas Cartel, rest of alphabet put on notic

Postby Flex » Tue Nov 01, 2011 1:28 pm

We live in a society where people born on third base constantly try to steal second, yet we expect people born with two strikes against them to hit a homerun on the first pitch.
User avatar
Flex
 
Posts: 7500
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2007 7:29 am

Re: Anonymous vs Zetas Cartel, rest of alphabet put on notic

Postby Jeremoot » Tue Nov 01, 2011 1:34 pm

Wait, you mean people (even drug cartels) take 4chan seriously?

What has the world come to?
User avatar
Jeremoot
 
Posts: 434
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 5:36 pm

Re: Anonymous vs Zetas Cartel, rest of alphabet put on notic

Postby Fivelives » Tue Nov 01, 2011 2:33 pm

Our govement should just legalize/decriminalize drugs. Take drugs off the black market and you not only control the quality of the drugs being consumed but you also eliminate the income of these cartels and gangs.


You'd just succeed in turning it into a gray market. Do you really think the cartels would change their ways of doing "business" just because it's legal now? No. You'd see them making ridiculous profits, and still being ruthless about driving out the competition. Except in this case, the competition would be American. Even if the government took over the growing and distribution of the drugs, the cartels have proven that they have no lack of disposable manpower to throw at governments in order to cow them. The "war on drugs" would become a lot more literal.

The only way that legalizing drugs could possibly work out the way you're thinking of is if either a) the cartels were eliminated beforehand (not really feasible) or b) we annex Mexico and convince the cartels to go straight (not really desirable). In theory though, I agree on most of the points raised by proponents of legalization, not least of which is that it's an easy cash cow that could save a lot of pending cuts - like NASA, military benefits, employment stimulus, etc. The problem is that it's not a realistic goal, especially right now.
- I'm not Jesus, but I can turn water into Kool-Aid.
- A Sergeant in motion outranks an officer who doesn't know what the hell is going on.
- A demolitions specialist at a flat run outranks everybody.
User avatar
Fivelives
 
Posts: 3108
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 7:55 pm

Re: Anonymous vs Zetas Cartel, rest of alphabet put on notic

Postby Lightbeard » Tue Nov 01, 2011 2:34 pm

Interesting but I'm willing to bet they are bluffing
Image
User avatar
Lightbeard
 
Posts: 6615
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2007 8:03 pm

Re: Anonymous vs Zetas Cartel, rest of alphabet put on notic

Postby Kelaan » Tue Nov 01, 2011 5:11 pm

Fivelives wrote:You'd just succeed in turning it into a gray market. Do you really think the cartels would change their ways of doing "business" just because it's legal now? No. You'd see them making ridiculous profits, and still being ruthless about driving out the competition. Except in this case, the competition would be American. Even if the government took over the growing and distribution of the drugs, the cartels have proven that they have no lack of disposable manpower to throw at governments in order to cow them. The "war on drugs" would become a lot more literal.

The main difference is that if we were to legalize the use and growing of some of those drugs, people being bullied by them would be able to go to the police. In theory. :)
User avatar
Kelaan
 
Posts: 4037
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2008 12:01 pm

Re: Anonymous vs Zetas Cartel, rest of alphabet put on notic

Postby Brekkie » Tue Nov 01, 2011 10:35 pm

Legalization and regulation are all well and good in theory, but when people talk about it they are mostly referring to just Marijuana, and *possibly* cocain.
But no government in the world would be able to justify legalizing the serious hardcore stuff that irrevocably fucks up your brain from a single use (such as acid or meth).

Also, stuff like this makes me wonder why we are in Afghanistan and not Mexico. I would gladly go fight a peacekeeping and stabilization mission in Mexico. At least the Mexicans have nationalistic pride, a desire for a functional government, a culture consistent with democracy, and a functioning society.
Not like the afghans.

That's the different between Iraq and Afghanistan. We could get a nation on it's feet in Iraq, because deep down, Iraqis aren't too different than us. They want to be a first-world democracy. They want cell phones and internet and malls and wives with big tits making them wonder bread sandwiches. There were people in Iraq who didn't want that, but they were mostly factional opportunists simply trying manipulate the situation to change the balance of power, or foreigners coming from other countries to fight the holy war because that's where the Americans were.
Afghans are nothing like us. And they want nothing to do with what we are trying to give them. Their culture has been pretty much unchanged since two and a half thousand years ago when Alexander the Great marched his army to the Kyber pass, said "fuck that", and turned around and went to India instead. Except for the minor additions of some ethnic mixing with Genghis Khan's mongols, the introduction of fundamentalist Islam, and soviet firearms.
I'd rather be fixing Mexico. At least we can do some good there.
Theckhd wrote:big numbers are the in-game way of expressing that Brekkie's penis is huge.
Brekkie
 
Posts: 953
Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2010 7:44 pm

Re: Anonymous vs Zetas Cartel, rest of alphabet put on notic

Postby Passionario » Tue Nov 01, 2011 11:46 pm

Fivelives wrote:You'd just succeed in turning it into a gray market. Do you really think the cartels would change their ways of doing "business" just because it's legal now? No. You'd see them making ridiculous profits, and still being ruthless about driving out the competition.


Is the Mafia still making ridiculous profits on bootleg alcohol and being as ruthless about it as in the days of Prohibition?
If you are not the flame, you're the fuel.
User avatar
Passionario
 
Posts: 3368
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 2:52 am

Re: Anonymous vs Zetas Cartel, rest of alphabet put on notic

Postby Arnock » Tue Nov 01, 2011 11:58 pm

Passionario wrote:
Fivelives wrote:You'd just succeed in turning it into a gray market. Do you really think the cartels would change their ways of doing "business" just because it's legal now? No. You'd see them making ridiculous profits, and still being ruthless about driving out the competition.


Is the Mafia still making ridiculous profits on bootleg alcohol and being as ruthless about it as in the days of Prohibition?



It might have been, if the mafia had become almost as powerful as the government itself before prohibition was lifted, and if alcohol had been outlawed in most of the world's countries in the meantime.
Last edited by Arnock on Wed Nov 02, 2011 1:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
Image
Courage not of this earth in your eyes
Faith from far beyond lies deep inside
User avatar
Arnock
 
Posts: 3665
Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2008 6:36 pm
Location: Everywhere and nowhere

Re: Anonymous vs Zetas Cartel, rest of alphabet put on notic

Postby Fivelives » Wed Nov 02, 2011 1:25 am

Kelaan wrote:The main difference is that if we were to legalize the use and growing of some of those drugs, people being bullied by them would be able to go to the police. In theory. :)


In theory, Mexicans can go to the police, too.
- I'm not Jesus, but I can turn water into Kool-Aid.
- A Sergeant in motion outranks an officer who doesn't know what the hell is going on.
- A demolitions specialist at a flat run outranks everybody.
User avatar
Fivelives
 
Posts: 3108
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 7:55 pm

Re: Anonymous vs Zetas Cartel, rest of alphabet put on notic

Postby degre » Wed Nov 02, 2011 8:00 am

Fivelives wrote:You'd just succeed in turning it into a gray market. Do you really think the cartels would change their ways of doing "business" just because it's legal now? No.

Learn from history.

As Passionario rightly pointed out, when Proibitionism was enforced criminals were making huge money out of the black market and were powerful, a lot, also there were gang wars because with all the money to be made were many being interested, but as bans were lifted they lost power, because they lost money.

You can buy weapons, you can buy people, cut them the money and won't be able to afford it.

Legalising (within limits) would shift the money from black market to legit operations, and while they would still be on the black market at competitive prices, the vast majority of the consumers would just shift to the legit market for many reasons, mainly because is easier to obtain going to the local shop than finding a pusher, and also as the word LEGAL makes lots of people way more relaxed.
This would result in a huge drop in cartel's money and sooner or later they'll found themselves out of business, or anyway drastically cut back.
All of the above is not just my opinion, is a lesson from history, as this behaviour is observed each and every time governments decide to ban something.

When I say 'within limits' I am talking about the legalisation of marijuana and related oils product (hashish), I would still enforce ban on higher class drugs, but even there, with marijuana out of the equation that would be already a major set back for drug lords, also the state could stop bothering hippies and students to focus on real problems and deal with higher class drugs, without mentioning that, while is not true that marijuana is necessarily a step into more dangerous drugs, in some case is true and having easily available grass could potentially reduce the sell of higher class drugs for the simple reason of being easily available.


Brekkie wrote:Also, stuff like this makes me wonder why we are in Afghanistan and not Mexico. I would gladly go fight a peacekeeping and stabilization mission in Mexico. At least the Mexicans have nationalistic pride, a desire for a functional government, a culture consistent with democracy, and a functioning society.
Not like the afghans.

because the USA don't move for charity, they move for money, and they have no gain in invading Mexico, while they have gains in Afghanistan and they had gain in invading as well Iraq and Libia.
On EU-Kadghar: Degre | Beldegre | Degrotto | Koshien
User avatar
degre
 
Posts: 1108
Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2007 7:11 pm
Location: Oxford, UK

Re: Anonymous vs Zetas Cartel, rest of alphabet put on notic

Postby Gab » Wed Nov 02, 2011 8:07 am

Arnock wrote:
Passionario wrote:
Fivelives wrote:You'd just succeed in turning it into a gray market. Do you really think the cartels would change their ways of doing "business" just because it's legal now? No. You'd see them making ridiculous profits, and still being ruthless about driving out the competition.


Is the Mafia still making ridiculous profits on bootleg alcohol and being as ruthless about it as in the days of Prohibition?



It might have been, if the mafia had become almost as powerful as the government itself before prohibition was lifted, and if alcohol had been outlawed in most of the world's countries in the meantime.


Passionario hit it square on. The Mafia at the point of prohibition was arguably just as powerful as the cartels are now. Maybe not as openly violent but they had a lot of political pull and had corrupt agents in all levels of government and law enforcement. The war on drugs is very similar except that the corruption/violence is happening mostly on foreign soil. Although it does spill over into the US.

Not sure how it would turn into a grey area considering that the market would be controlled by the government and the cartels would be unable to introduce their "product" into this controlled market.

Legailization could be the only answer. As an example, if heroin were to become legal, would I or anyone else that has never done it say "hey it's legal now, I think I'm going to go shoot up". The answer is probably not. Alcohol is legal and that can be just as detremental to society and to people as any of these "hardcore" drugs. Legalize it, control it, and tax it. Not only would we gain revenue from hefty sin taxes, but we would save millions and millions of dollars on enforcement and incarceration of non violent criminals, as well as saving the money we are wasting on this so called war on drugs.

P.S. Degre well said, you posted as I was typing this up. Although I seriously think legalization/decriminalization of even hard core drugs would only benefit us. I could go out and find any drug I wanted right now. Am I going to? Nope. Will I be able to go out and find any drug if it were legalized? Sure. But I'm still not going to.
User avatar
Gab
 
Posts: 690
Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2010 10:54 am
Location: Wish you were here

PreviousNext

Return to Arkham Asylum

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


Remove Advertisements

Who is online

In total there is 1 user online :: 0 registered, 0 hidden and 1 guest (based on users active over the past 5 minutes)
Most users ever online was 380 on Tue Oct 14, 2008 6:28 pm

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest
?php } else { ?