[10H] Majordomo Staghelm

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Re: [10H] Majordomo Staghelm

Postby Zalaria » Thu Oct 27, 2011 8:32 am

What's making you fail around 40%? Enrage, attrition, ___?
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Re: [10H] Majordomo Staghelm

Postby Klaudandus » Thu Oct 27, 2011 8:34 am

attrition and bad luck with orbs/jumps...
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Re: [10H] Majordomo Staghelm

Postby Zalaria » Thu Oct 27, 2011 8:39 am

Make sure your raiders are moving before he jumps (start running at 90% energy) so they don't lose concentration if they are targeted.

You might also benefit from the 1/7/1/7 strats. Have the raid stack behind him in scorp and use one of these to take a solo scythe:
  • Pally tank using AD
  • Holy priest Guardian Spirit + tank's 50% cooldown

Taking a few raid-wide scythes at the beginning (like the previous posters were talking about) might give you some more dps time overall before the attrition kicks in, and if you're 3-healing you might try dropping to 2.


Oh, also: how are you handling orbs? We got our first kill last night with tank+melee on one and the lowest two ranged dps on the other.
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Re: [10H] Majordomo Staghelm

Postby Klaudandus » Thu Oct 27, 2011 8:45 am

At times its been ranged+healer soaking at an orb. I've not yet had the opportunity to soak up an orb, as a tank, because they spawn so far away that I end up being cut off -- which is why its actually ranged/healers normally ending up with the orbs...

What is the overall drawback of having 3 melee sneak behind staghelm during scorpion and have then unload on the boss, at least for a couple of swipes, as in... a more orthodox approach based on the normal mode mechanics.

I mean, I read that some guilds actually take the scorpion for up to 6/7 swipes before moving to the 0-7-0, or 1-7-1 strat.
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Re: [10H] Majordomo Staghelm

Postby Zalaria » Thu Oct 27, 2011 8:52 am

The biggest problem with having people go behind him is you'd have to break earlier, since there's fewer soakers. It's certainly doable.

If you want to try that, keep in mind that it doesn't have to be melee. Melee can stand kinda right behind the claws and not get parried while still sharing the scythe, so if you're going to have people behind him pick your highest dps.


And remember that the orbs are just "closest", so as long as everyone else is farther away you can soak even a far orb. I'd also try to avoid having healers soak, full concentration lets them heal much easier, which can help alleviate some of the attrition.
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Re: [10H] Majordomo Staghelm

Postby Belloc » Thu Oct 27, 2011 9:28 am

The problem with taking scythes is that it reduces your DPS and healing. You're better off completely skipping the scythes if you want to get the fight over faster.

Solo tanking a scythe gives the boss a large amount of energy. It barely saves you a few seconds. I'd rather save the AD for myself or the GS for someone that fails to run away from a high damage leap.

If people are dying to leaps, then they need to start moving before the boss leaps. 90 energy is a fine time to start running, but so is 95. Some distance is required to not get hit, though.

If people are dying to orbs, the tank and a melee need to start taking one. Even if this means running around a leap AOE, it should still be done. You'll have time to reposition the boss once the orbs disappear so that the rest of the raid doesn't have to go out of their way. Though, in all honesty, I've rarely ever had a problem getting to an orb -- problems like that will be the exception on this fight, not the rule.

It sounds like your group just needs more practice. You'll get it if you keep trying! Figure out who is dying and what they are dying to and address the issue. If someone dies to a leap, instruct them to run prior to the leap. If lots of people are having leap troubles, start calling out when a leap is imminent.


Kishandra wrote:Scenario 1: take a few slashes, you enter cat at 80% and everyone at around 20% concentration.
Scenario 2: spread out at 70 energy, enter cat at 95% and everyone at around 50% concentration.

30% concentration is -not- worth 15% of the boss' hp.

Your scenarios are missing important information. Scenario 1, for instance, takes a lot longer for the boss to get to 80% than Scenario 2.

30% concentration might not be worth 15% of the boss' hp, but we're not talking about 30% concentration. We're talking about the raid having their concentration reset continually for about 72 seconds, assuming 7 slashes, just to get the boss to 80%. Most of this time is with the raid sitting at 0 effective concentration (since it only buffs you for every 25 concentration). 72 seconds into a properly executed Scenario 2 has most of that time with all DPS sitting at 100 concentration. Also, the healers are sitting at 100 concentration, which really helps when people get hit by a leap.

Eating slashes is, without a doubt, a bad strategy. It extends the fight by an unreasonable amount of time and it makes every job a bit harder.
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Re: [10H] Majordomo Staghelm

Postby Klaudandus » Thu Oct 27, 2011 9:36 am

People are not really dying to leaps, they're dying because everything is scattered all over the place, and me having to move cathelm into places where I don't get cut off from everything, but doing so leaves me, and the melee, eventually circled with fire zones, and thus farther away from possible orbs when the orbs face come around.

Now, a kill is a kill.

Is it really better to have a chance at killing something faster, even if its somewhat chaotic and unpredictable, or a cleaner, more controlled kill, even if takes minutes longer? I've always preferred cleaner kills, even if the execution adds more time to the kills. I guess my question is, what is the best option for someone going for their first h staghelm, rather than your personal preference.
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Re: [10H] Majordomo Staghelm

Postby Zalaria » Thu Oct 27, 2011 9:53 am

Wait, you're moving away from the middle when it's not an orb phase? Non-orb cat phases should be just like normal mode, keeping him close to the middle of the circle so people can judge distances based off the circle. Ranged should be adjusting themselves so they are in range to dps/heal while you keep him mostly centered. In the orb phases, try to keep people out of the circle so there aren't any fires there, and return to the circle when the orbs go away around jump 5.

That puts you in the same starting place every time, which helps everyone.
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Re: [10H] Majordomo Staghelm

Postby Belloc » Thu Oct 27, 2011 10:04 am

If you want to try it with cleaves, feel free. It might buy you some more space by allowing more time for the leap AOEs to disappear.

I suggest, however, that you abandon the strategy if it doesn't prove to be very helpful. Personally, I'm kind of wondering how you're running out of room. Are ranged sitting at max range? Are they spreading out more than they need to?

Also, keep in mind that the fire orbs have a big range. You don't need to be anywhere near it, so long as you're closer than everyone else. Make sure the raid is prepared to shift away from them when necessary. Also keep in mind that you can pull Staghelm away from the fires in the pre-orb scorpion phase. This won't guarantee great fire orb positioning, but it will certainly help.
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Re: [10H] Majordomo Staghelm

Postby Klaudandus » Thu Oct 27, 2011 10:16 am

is not that i am running out of room, just that i'm being cutoff at times.

We start near the stairs and move around the the outer circle either clockwise or counter clockwise depending on where he jumps and move accordingly in place.
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Re: [10H] Majordomo Staghelm

Postby Arincia » Thu Oct 27, 2011 10:19 am

After some trial and err my group ended up with a slight variation of the 0/7 strat to kill him that makes it easier for us to organize without running into void zones with orbs up and kills him fairly fast(7 minute kills). So it may be of some help for you.

7/7 > 0/7 > 4/7> 0/7 > (repeat 0/7)

The only reason we take 4 again is to clear out crap on the ground for orbs and raid cds would be up again.
First one we stick our 2 highest dps and strongest raid healer out.

For first set of scorpion scythes taken we lust 2, DG 5, AM+tranq on 6, break after 7. (2dps+raid healer out boss is around 80%)
For second set of scorpion scythes taken, DG>Rally cry>AM+tranq, break after 4. (raid healer+dps out boss is around 30-40%)

The reason we use lust on first scorpion is because of the raid dps uptime on boss and boosted healing without needing cds. (first scorpion phase is highest guaranteed time of rdps on the boss hence why we use it then.)

As far as the orb phase goes just have everyone focus on surviving the orb phase (have ranged assist on cat spawns if needed) and you overcame the toughest part of the fight.

edit:

As far as adjusting position and getting cut off the only time we adjust the boss is for orb phase. Otherwise we just have people start looking for a way to get back to boss asap at 5 so they can make to boss in time for stack ups on 7. It's not that hard to ask people to pay attention to it (or have one person call it out).
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Re: [10H] Majordomo Staghelm

Postby Hrobertgar » Thu Oct 27, 2011 11:34 am

Eating slashes is, without a doubt, a bad strategy. It extends the fight by an unreasonable amount of time and it makes every job a bit harder.


I completely disagree. If you can down H-shannox, then you probably have the dps (post nerf) to beat the enrage on H-domo, so eating slahses should not be a detriment in that way.

I have never seen the post-nerf enrage as an issue so I view facing multiple orb phases as more risky than eating a few slashes. Dedicated pouncing on one orb seems to be the most difficult mechanic to adjust to as it can cause problems grouping back up for scorpion phase. Thus, the fewer orb phases there are the lower the risk there is of this. The orb phase is the only non-trivial mechanic of the fight, and by eating slashes in scorpion form you push orb phase out and preclude any possibility of a second orb phase. Even pre-nerf orb phases on normal were either rare or short, limiting practice for them, so not everyone can always adjust well to all possibilities.

If your raid is highly skilled at adjusting to even poorly placed orbs and leaps, then I expect 0/7 would be awesome for you, but it doesn't mean that it is the ideal strategy for everyone. If you are so skilled at orbs, you could even go 0/0 as the one group did that posted a video of it.

For raids eating slahses off the initial scorpion phase, the boss' dmg is low enough that even with 2 dps out, the rest of the raid can safely eat 9 slashes, probably even more with a well timed Aura Mastery. Two pre-potting ranged blowing their CDs can put out insane dmg during this period. Our Arcane Mage topped out at almost 100k dps briefly during this phase (I think we did use heroism though).

My raids generally go 9/7 6/7 6/5 5/5 kill 8-9 on initial scorpion with top 2 dps (normally ranged) out. Then 7 on cat and 6 slashes for seeds, 7 more leaps and 6 slashes to clear for orbs. We generally start orb phase near 20% or so. Thus we can do just 5 shlashes and 5 leaps before he falls over.
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Re: [10H] Majordomo Staghelm

Postby Klaudandus » Thu Oct 27, 2011 6:54 pm

Hrobertgar wrote:
Eating slashes is, without a doubt, a bad strategy. It extends the fight by an unreasonable amount of time and it makes every job a bit harder.


I completely disagree. If you can down H-shannox, then you probably have the dps (post nerf) to beat the enrage on H-domo, so eating slahses should not be a detriment in that way.

I have never seen the post-nerf enrage as an issue so I view facing multiple orb phases as more risky than eating a few slashes. Dedicated pouncing on one orb seems to be the most difficult mechanic to adjust to as it can cause problems grouping back up for scorpion phase. Thus, the fewer orb phases there are the lower the risk there is of this. The orb phase is the only non-trivial mechanic of the fight, and by eating slashes in scorpion form you push orb phase out and preclude any possibility of a second orb phase. Even pre-nerf orb phases on normal were either rare or short, limiting practice for them, so not everyone can always adjust well to all possibilities.

If your raid is highly skilled at adjusting to even poorly placed orbs and leaps, then I expect 0/7 would be awesome for you, but it doesn't mean that it is the ideal strategy for everyone. If you are so skilled at orbs, you could even go 0/0 as the one group did that posted a video of it.

For raids eating slahses off the initial scorpion phase, the boss' dmg is low enough that even with 2 dps out, the rest of the raid can safely eat 9 slashes, probably even more with a well timed Aura Mastery. Two pre-potting ranged blowing their CDs can put out insane dmg during this period. Our Arcane Mage topped out at almost 100k dps briefly during this phase (I think we did use heroism though).

My raids generally go 9/7 6/7 6/5 5/5 kill 8-9 on initial scorpion with top 2 dps (normally ranged) out. Then 7 on cat and 6 slashes for seeds, 7 more leaps and 6 slashes to clear for orbs. We generally start orb phase near 20% or so. Thus we can do just 5 shlashes and 5 leaps before he falls over.



What is the ilvl avg for your raid when using this?
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Re: [10H] Majordomo Staghelm

Postby Klaudandus » Thu Oct 27, 2011 10:17 pm

used arincia's method, we killed staghelm although we did have some issues

- people would not get out of the leap in time and would drop their concentration stacks
- we beat him with 3 secs left on his enrage timer

I actually went with str potions and str flask, and managed to squeeze out the last dps needed, after the previous try had him berserk with just 1% HP left.

Despite the fight literally taking 10 mins from start to finish, it was easier overall due to having more control on how to position yourself for the orbs.
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Re: [10H] Majordomo Staghelm

Postby Darielle » Fri Oct 28, 2011 2:03 am

I don't see where you achieve anything by moving around the room - staying in the center and collapse/expand leaves you plenty of room between Cat phases and for orbs anyway.

Beyond that - I don't know if there's any real way to comment on people's dps without seeing some sort of log. I can say that people trying to dodge Leaps should be in movement as he's choosing to Leap, not trying to move after they see him in mid air.
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