Just Gotta Say...

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Re: Just Gotta Say...

Postby Brekkie » Thu Oct 13, 2011 9:09 pm

People don't get "physically hurt or worse" in America without serious consequences for the perpetrator. This is America. Not the Sudan or Pakistan. If ANYONE ever lays a finger on you in this country, and you don't immediately go to the authorities which exist for your protection, you are accepting that attack as justified.

Sorry, I refuse to accept that there is somehow some underground rampant systemic oppression going on. We have laws in this country, and we have rules in our schools, and administrators who enforce them.
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Re: Just Gotta Say...

Postby Levantine » Fri Oct 14, 2011 1:02 am

Brekkie wrote:-A Gay Civil Rights Activist was mentioned earlier. Not sure what civil rights it is felt homosexuals lack. Serious question. Because institutionally speaking, they lack none as far as I can think of. Don't say marriage, because it is perfectly possible to do all the important legal functionality of a union already, and beyond that marriage is just a word, mostly religiously defined, and you're free to make your own religion and call your partnership whatever the heck you want. It's just semantics. And besides, is marriage really a civil right? I'm sure if you asked me to define the scope of civil rights before raising this topic, the definition I'd think of wouldn't really fall across marriage anyway.

Not going to get into the marriage 'debate' since all it is to two sides vomiting crap at each other and not listening in the slightest. Both sides make me nauseous with the nonsense they deem arguments on that one. What I can say though is that even off the top of my head there are several states in the US where LGBT couples are unable to adopt, where they can be fired from their job or evicted from their houses. Saying that the group has equal civil rights across the board in your country is ignorant. Then again, being in the military and posted overseas, it doesn't surprise me that DADT was the only thing you'd have any clue on.

Is it as bad as it could be and is in other countries? No, it's not; does that mean that there's no reason to try to make it better though?
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Re: Just Gotta Say...

Postby Shyrtandros » Fri Oct 14, 2011 6:23 am

bldavis wrote:
Nikachelle wrote:It's only rude because he's unaware that it's supporting Coming Out Day.

Snip
honestly if TL;DR is the best you can come up with to post, shut your yap
Snip

-----------------

HUGE
ASS
SIGNITURE


TL;DR


Lol, just kidding. :)


*Edit to correct BLDavis Quote*
Last edited by Shyrtandros on Fri Oct 14, 2011 7:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Just Gotta Say...

Postby bldavis » Fri Oct 14, 2011 7:52 am

Shyrtandros wrote:
bldavis wrote:
Nikachelle wrote:It's only rude because he's unaware that it's supporting Coming Out Day.

Snip
honestly if TL;DR is the best you can come up with to post, shut your yap
Snip


TL;DR


Lol, just kidding. :)

touche
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Re: Just Gotta Say...

Postby Dazhbog » Fri Oct 14, 2011 9:17 am

Brekkie wrote:People don't get "physically hurt or worse" in America without serious consequences for the perpetrator. This is America. Not the Sudan or Pakistan. If ANYONE ever lays a finger on you in this country, and you don't immediately go to the authorities which exist for your protection, you are accepting that attack as justified.

Sorry, I refuse to accept that there is somehow some underground rampant systemic oppression going on. We have laws in this country, and we have rules in our schools, and administrators who enforce them.


Heh.

Link 1
Link 2
Link 3 (The Carribbean, I know. I mean, it's to be expected there)
Link 4 (kid driven to suicide)
Link 5

I can keep going. And these are only the ones we know about. No, we're not as bad off as some places, but is it still taking your life in your hands to be openly gay in some parts of this country? Absolutely.
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Re: Just Gotta Say...

Postby Flex » Fri Oct 14, 2011 9:45 am

Dazhbog wrote:
Brekkie wrote:People don't get "physically hurt or worse" in America without serious consequences for the perpetrator. This is America. Not the Sudan or Pakistan. If ANYONE ever lays a finger on you in this country, and you don't immediately go to the authorities which exist for your protection, you are accepting that attack as justified.

Sorry, I refuse to accept that there is somehow some underground rampant systemic oppression going on. We have laws in this country, and we have rules in our schools, and administrators who enforce them.


Heh.

...

I can keep going. And these are only the ones we know about. No, we're not as bad off as some places, but is it still taking your life in your hands to be openly gay in some parts of this country? Absolutely.


Bolded the pretty big point of the post you're replying to. Brekkie never said it didn't happen, but that there are legal recourses when it does happen.
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Re: Just Gotta Say...

Postby cerwillis » Fri Oct 14, 2011 9:55 am

Brekkie, you are a white, straight, attractive, Marine. One of those is your own doing, the rest are not. They all qualify you to have absolutely zero perspective on civil rights equality in the US.
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Re: Just Gotta Say...

Postby Dazhbog » Fri Oct 14, 2011 10:20 am

Flex wrote:Bolded the pretty big point of the post you're replying to. Brekkie never said it didn't happen, but that there are legal recourses when it does happen.


There is legal recourse, sure. IF the perpetrators are caught. IF they're found guilty. IF the legal system decides the case is worth their time, and the authorities aren't prejudiced as well. IF anyone even notifies them to begin with.

Again, it's really quite easy to pull up news cases on non-straight folks being attacked and, in some cases, killed. For every case we hear on the news, how many do we never hear about? How many that are brought to the authorities are hushed up and never see the light of day again?

You can say that this is America, and we've abolished racism, sexism, and that no one's afraid to walk the streets at night because of who they are, and that the legal system stands ready to represent all victims of hate crimes and prejudice. Unfortunately, you'd be wrong.
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Re: Just Gotta Say...

Postby Flex » Fri Oct 14, 2011 10:24 am

Dazhbog wrote:
Flex wrote:Bolded the pretty big point of the post you're replying to. Brekkie never said it didn't happen, but that there are legal recourses when it does happen.


There is legal recourse, sure. IF the perpetrators are caught. IF they're found guilty. IF the legal system decides the case is worth their time, and the authorities aren't prejudiced as well. IF anyone even notifies them to begin with.


That's a lot of ifs there. Also bolded the part that was in Brekkie's post as well. If you don't report it you accept the assault as justified.

Again, it's really quite easy to pull up news cases on non-straight folks being attacked and, in some cases, killed. For every case we hear on the news, how many do we never hear about? How many that are brought to the authorities are hushed up and never see the light of day again?


"non-straight" can be removed from that sentence and it remains equally true.
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Re: Just Gotta Say...

Postby Shyrtandros » Fri Oct 14, 2011 10:25 am

cerwillis wrote:Brekkie, you are a white, straight, attractive, Marine. 2.5 of those is your own doing, the rest are not. They all qualify you to have absolutely zero perspective on civil rights equality in the US.


Corrected.
You can choose to be straight, you can choose to be a Marine and everyone knows attractiveness is genetics + personal care.

Your comment isn't fair to Brekkie or the people YOUR stereotyping... Civil Rights Equality cannot be scaled down to something as simple as "Sex, Job, Sexual Preference and Race"
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Re: Just Gotta Say...

Postby Brekkie » Fri Oct 14, 2011 10:25 am

There are still racists that perpetrate hate-crimes against minorities like African Americans.
There are still neo-nazis out there that spew hatred against jews.

Does this mean that African Americans or Jews are oppressed in America? No, it just means there will always be a few ignorant crazies out there who hate anything that is different. That's something built into the human psyche from the eons of competition between early human tribal bands.

If a black man wakes up one day to find a cross burning in his front yard, you don't blame the system, you gather your friends around you and call the cops.

But the vast majority of Americans, across every region of the country, aren't like that. Just a few bad eggs. And you'll never be able to stop there from being a few bad eggs. Does that mean the deck is stacked against you? No it doesn't. Learning to accept and deal with the fact that not everyone in the world is going to love and cherish you is a primary life skill.
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Re: Just Gotta Say...

Postby Brekkie » Fri Oct 14, 2011 10:29 am

I'd also like to make the point that "person committed suicide because he was depressed" =/= "they were killed".

Suicide is a very touchy, unfortunate thing. But it is NOT murder. Calling it murder is hyperbole.
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Re: Just Gotta Say...

Postby Nikachelle » Fri Oct 14, 2011 10:37 am

Shyrtandros wrote:
cerwillis wrote:Brekkie, you are a white, straight, attractive, Marine. 2.5 of those is your own doing, the rest are not. They all qualify you to have absolutely zero perspective on civil rights equality in the US.


Corrected.
You can choose to be straight [snip]


What the fuck...
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Re: Just Gotta Say...

Postby Flex » Fri Oct 14, 2011 10:39 am

Nikachelle wrote:
Shyrtandros wrote:
cerwillis wrote:Brekkie, you are a white, straight, attractive, Marine. 2.5 of those is your own doing, the rest are not. They all qualify you to have absolutely zero perspective on civil rights equality in the US.


Corrected.
You can choose to be straight [snip]


What the fuck...


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Re: Just Gotta Say...

Postby Dazhbog » Fri Oct 14, 2011 10:42 am

Flex wrote:
Dazhbog wrote:
Flex wrote:Bolded the pretty big point of the post you're replying to. Brekkie never said it didn't happen, but that there are legal recourses when it does happen.


There is legal recourse, sure. IF the perpetrators are caught. IF they're found guilty. IF the legal system decides the case is worth their time, and the authorities aren't prejudiced as well. IF anyone even notifies them to begin with.


That's a lot of ifs there. Also bolded the part that was in Brekkie's post as well. If you don't report it you accept the assault as justified.

Again, it's really quite easy to pull up news cases on non-straight folks being attacked and, in some cases, killed. For every case we hear on the news, how many do we never hear about? How many that are brought to the authorities are hushed up and never see the light of day again?


"non-straight" can be removed from that sentence and it remains equally true.


Bolded the part that just.... boggles my mind. Ow. No. You don't seriously believe that, do you? That if you're beaten or abused or raped or similar and don't report it (perhaps because you fear for your life if you do), that's the same as accepting the crimes are justified?

And "non-straight" can't be removed without removing the motive for the crimes in the first place. People just aren't attacked for being straight, for the most part; there are other motives involved. This doesn't justify the crimes, of course, but it's a far cry from mugging someone to assaulting them simply because of their sexual preferences.

Learning to accept and deal with the fact that not everyone in the world is going to love and cherish you is a primary life skill.


And in the cases where a person can't speak out at all, because they have no recourse? The son who admits he's gay and his parents beat him and lock him in a closet? The transgender person who lives in a small rural town where the cops turn a blind eye, or the couple who are simply found dead one morning without warning. They should just "deal with it", yeah? In a lot of cases, yes, the deck stacked against someone, and there is exactly nothing they can do about it. We've come a long way in this country, but the illusion that everyone gets the same shake is just that, an illusion.
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