noob question about JP/VP

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Re: noob question about JP/VP

Postby lythac » Fri Oct 07, 2011 9:10 am

lythac wrote:I thought it might be that. Just seen this though - Modified Gear Level (PTR Only) (Your maximum item level is throttled to 353 for purposes of dungeon testing on the PTR.)


I'll just pop this in again (only a few posts down).

It seems odd to throttle ilvl at 353 for testing purposes if that isn't minimum. Granted that may never be applied on the PTR or the value changed or designed for the trolls (at gear level) but never pushed to servers.
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Re: noob question about JP/VP

Postby Belloc » Fri Oct 07, 2011 9:24 am

Skye1013 wrote:^--Drops are indeed 378, ilvl required to enter them in the first place is what's in question.

Ah, I suppose I should read a bit slower next time :D
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Re: noob question about JP/VP

Postby Sabindeus » Fri Oct 07, 2011 9:24 am

Nikachelle wrote:365 feels high to me at the moment. My best geared alt, who has no actual raid gear, barely just cleared the requirement with her 366 ilevel. None of my other alts would qualify.

well 378 stuff will be available from JP... you could probably get your alts up quickly with a few regular heroics
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Re: noob question about JP/VP

Postby Zalaria » Fri Oct 07, 2011 9:25 am

A quick chardev toon with best-available current non-raid gear (so 4.2's jp, vp, molten front, thrall quest, non-raid crafted, and Zul) has a 367 ilevel. I might have missed a piece or two, but you can't go much higher without raid crafted stuff, raid rep, raid drops (BoE or BoP), or cheating with pvp gear. That said, I expect something around 360 as the requirement. High enough to have put some effort into gearing through Zuls and other sources, but not perfect. 353 seems too low with all the other sources of good gear.

But, the only previous example we have is the Zuls, where they require ilevel equal to the previous 5-man tier's dropped ilevel of 346.



edit: i didn't include 4.3's VP gear though, so higher ilevel will be attainable from just pre-4.3 heroics.
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Re: noob question about JP/VP

Postby Hrobertgar » Fri Oct 07, 2011 10:49 am

365 feels high to me at the moment. My best geared alt, who has no actual raid gear, barely just cleared the requirement with her 366 ilevel. None of my other alts would qualify.


^^ I agree. My raiding toons meet it easily, but I only rarely raid on my mage, and almost never on my hunter. I don't think the mage could meet a 365 threshhold, which I believe would also hold back a LOT of the casuals. 353 however, is something even my Hunter could probably meet with a few JP/VP/BOE items.


But, the only previous example we have is the Zuls, where they require ilevel equal to the previous 5-man tier's dropped ilevel of 346.


Zul's drop 353, that combined with VP vendor items using VP from RDF would reasonably allow a casual to get access to the new dungeons.


A quick chardev toon with best-available current non-raid gear (so 4.2's jp, vp, molten front, thrall quest, non-raid crafted, and Zul) has a 367 ilevel. I might have missed a piece or two, but you can't go much higher without raid crafted stuff, raid rep, raid drops (BoE or BoP), or cheating with pvp gear. That said, I expect something around 360 as the requirement. High enough to have put some effort into gearing through Zuls and other sources, but not perfect. 353 seems too low with all the other sources of good gear.


I think requiring ppl to go through molten front is too much of a barrier for a THRESHHOLD ilvl requirement. I can see the content being optimized for 365 ilvl, but the entry level requirement should be more attainable to the casual player and RDF groups.

I think a complicating factor may be LFR requirements as it will be possible to gear up that way fairly quickly.
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Re: noob question about JP/VP

Postby Skye1013 » Fri Oct 07, 2011 10:55 am

I'm not sure a 7 ilvl difference from Trolls to DWs is enough... considering the amount of fail that still goes on in the Trolls...

Edit: Especially if you consider the 17 ilvl difference between reg heroics and Trolls. (329 -> 346)
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Re: noob question about JP/VP

Postby steadypal » Fri Oct 07, 2011 11:23 am

okay so since you cannot get tier sets in 4.3 via VP i should aim for the 4pc t12 or w/e it is currently and call it a day?


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Re: noob question about JP/VP

Postby Skye1013 » Fri Oct 07, 2011 11:29 am

You can get lower ilvl t13 if you want to try out the LFR system, and there are supposed to be off set pieces for the tier slots available with VP, so depends on what you want/what is better for your dps (off 13 vs 4pt12)
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Re: noob question about JP/VP

Postby PsiVen » Sat Oct 08, 2011 9:40 am

Nikachelle wrote:365 feels high to me at the moment. My best geared alt, who has no actual raid gear, barely just cleared the requirement with her 366 ilevel. None of my other alts would qualify.


At the moment it is, but when JP gear is 378 and VP is 397 it'll be quite easy to hit that mark.
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Re: noob question about JP/VP

Postby Worldie » Sat Oct 08, 2011 1:19 pm

Right now all my alts (which almost noone set foot into firelands) hover around 362. With 378 gear from JP, it's going to be easy to reach 365+ Ilvl with just doing heroics and molten front starting part.
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Re: noob question about JP/VP

Postby yappo » Sat Oct 08, 2011 1:23 pm

PsiVen wrote:
Nikachelle wrote:365 feels high to me at the moment. My best geared alt, who has no actual raid gear, barely just cleared the requirement with her 366 ilevel. None of my other alts would qualify.


At the moment it is, but when JP gear is 378 and VP is 397 it'll be quite easy to hit that mark.


I don't have any raid-drops, but I also don't need VP any more (converting them to CP). At honored with AoH I sit on ilevel 368 after crafting the MF weapon. Guess I could push it to 369 by stamstacking trinkets.

365 as entry level is way out for a five man dungeon. Basically you'll make it raiders only the first two weeks.

At the other hand letting people in 353 gear slug through opponents dropping 378 would enforce hysterically unbalanced fights (as in everything nerfed beyond belief from the start).

I think Blizz botched this one badly.
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Re: noob question about JP/VP

Postby Fetzie » Sat Oct 08, 2011 2:01 pm

Maybe Blizzard was reckoning on most players at least getting a couple of Firelands loots before 4.3, making average ilvl 365 something that one would automatically have. Hence the massive nerfs etc.
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Re: noob question about JP/VP

Postby Zalaria » Sat Oct 08, 2011 4:34 pm

But that doesn't help the new 85 trying to gear up for the first time.
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Re: noob question about JP/VP

Postby Torias » Sat Oct 08, 2011 6:16 pm

Seems like the natural progression will be:
  • Ding 85, have maybe ~1200 JP from leveling dungeons and trading in Honour. Run some normals, getting 333 gear for some slots and 140 JP per run. Get Molten Front gear + Thrall cloak (2-3 pieces 365)
  • Buy ilvl 378 tier armor with JP, start running regular heroics. Get some 346 pieces, more JP, some VP.
  • Get two piece T12 and maybe a ring/bracers, start running troll dungeons, get some 353 gear. Buy some more T12 loot or ilvl 378 offspec. Probably pick up first ilvl 397 offpiece from VP around this point.
  • Hit ilvl ~370, start running newest heroics. Grind ad nauseum, get near full 397 offpieces from VP, fill in the rest with Raid Finder.

Doesn't sound the least bit botched or unreasonable, hell it doesn't even include all the 365 off pieces you'd get from doing the Molten Front, nor the fact that you can buy gear from the AH. The only possibly "unreasonable" thing is people being angry they have to run trolls/normal heroics a few more times to get sufficient ilvl to start the new heroics, which raiders will skip since I'm assuming by the time 4.3 comes out most raid teams will have gone a few heroic and probably be averaging around ilvl 380-382.
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Re: noob question about JP/VP

Postby Teranoid » Sat Oct 08, 2011 7:56 pm

Zalaria wrote:But that doesn't help the new 85 trying to gear up for the first time.


A fresh 85 shouldn't be leapfrogging 2 tiers of content just to cut to the head of the line either.
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