Proxy-queuing is (now) a bannable offense.

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Re: Proxy-queuing is (now) a bannable offense.

Postby Shoju » Thu Oct 06, 2011 8:47 am

Winkle wrote:
KysenMurrin wrote:If you zone in in 13 pieces of tank gear and 3 pvp, willingly start tanking the place, and don't fail because of it, who's going to report you?


Indeed, i've tanked BoT and BWD as a druid tank in full 371 pvp gear bar a hit and an expertise trinket(the 2 eyes of raj).

There is simply no way the reason any group fails is at all related to PvP gear.


Go heal a warrior, paladin, or Dk tank in full pvp gear then come back and talk. On a druid? Sure, PvP gear for tanking is just fine. ON the plate tanks? It's fail. Fail. FAIL.
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Re: Proxy-queuing is (now) a bannable offense.

Postby halabar » Thu Oct 06, 2011 8:52 am

KysenMurrin wrote:Remember the point of this is the deliberate queue jumping, not just punishing people who can't perform.


But based on the description, the GMs are going to have fun sorting the slackers from the noobs.
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Re: Proxy-queuing is (now) a bannable offense.

Postby KysenMurrin » Thu Oct 06, 2011 9:26 am

Where did the information in the OP come from, by the way? I'm not seeing it mentioned anywhere else.
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Re: Proxy-queuing is (now) a bannable offense.

Postby Hrobertgar » Thu Oct 06, 2011 10:20 am

The focus on this is clearly those dps types who are cheating by queuing as tank/heals, rather than underperformance.

Hmm this sounds a bit too subjective


I too am concerned about the subjectivity, and 'provability'.

Now, I have heard of stories from a guildee, wherein a warrior dps queued as a tank, indicated he had a 15min afk coming, waited for the tank to drop group and then miraculously re-queued as a dps. The guildee indicated he reported the player (This was like 2nd week of Cata) and was told 'congrats you've found a way to cheat the system'. I have had experiences that were not that bad although I have witnessed abuse, but proving it given the punishment concerns me.

What if I'm doing BGs in my Exodin spec and PvP gear, and then decide to queue and forget to switch. Now, I'm still holy, and still quite capable, but what if someone whines over a slight oversight and I get banned from a big raid the next day, i'd be pissed. Especially, as I actually run my Exodin spec for most dungeons now anyways since I outgear them all so badly, and use that spec while questing. For a Direbrew run last night, I pulled 5.6k while healing and outdps'd an ehancement shammy. But techinically I was in Exodin spec (modified healing) and not in full raid heal spec.

I am a little concerned with clueless/vengefull/patienceless RDF PuGgers filing ENDLESS streams of these requests over the slightest things and getting some otherwise good players a temporary instance ban. I mean PuG groups that vote kick over a sneeze will certainly abuse this as well. Its just too late I think. If Blizz had policed this 6+ months ago they might've been able to curb the behavior. Changing behavior now when its rampant is going to be brutal on ppl.
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Re: Proxy-queuing is (now) a bannable offense.

Postby Belloc » Thu Oct 06, 2011 10:28 am

Shoju wrote:
KysenMurrin wrote:Remember the point of this is the deliberate queue jumping, not just punishing people who can't perform.


They also mentioned padding their ilvl with gear that isn't acceptable for the job. a full set of pvp gear is not acceptable for a pve job.

Some fully PvP geared players can out-perform comparatively geared PvE players. PvP gear is only a problem when it prevents a player from performing their role. This only happens to DPS if the DPS in question sucks at DPSing.
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Re: Proxy-queuing is (now) a bannable offense.

Postby Shoju » Thu Oct 06, 2011 11:13 am

Which sadly, the RDF is chock full of.
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Re: Proxy-queuing is (now) a bannable offense.

Postby Nothan » Thu Oct 06, 2011 11:18 am

The other day this DK was tanking a ZG in fully gemmed/enchanted pvp oriented gear. There was nothing wrong with his tanking and he did good. I have no idea how the healer felt though, but we finished the run without wiping and his health didn’t spike all that bad. There have been several instances where healers I've seen are fully pvp'ed geared out and do just fine.

Honestly, it is not so much the issue of gear that is causing the fail. It's the person using the gear who is just incapable of playing the role. It doesn't seem like too much to ask to do maybe 5 minutes of research to gain a basic understanding of how to play a specific role. From a dps standpoint, I know if I'm going to ding 85 on an alt, the first thing I'm going to do is pad my ilvl to ZA/ZG level using random BoEs some of which may be useful and others purely trash. Obviously, I wouldn't do this for tanking since that will just waste my time and everyone else's time.

The only thing that annoys me is the tanks who queue in and stay in group and deliberately says they aren't coming in so vote kick them and dps/healers who just generally suck. I've kicked so many people because of the fact that they just perform their role, no matter what gear they are in, that my timer for vote kicking is permanently stuck at 4 hours.
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Re: Proxy-queuing is (now) a bannable offense.

Postby fuzzygeek » Thu Oct 06, 2011 11:36 am

Shoju wrote:Go heal a warrior, paladin, or Dk tank in full pvp gear then come back and talk. On a druid? Sure, PvP gear for tanking is just fine. ON the plate tanks? It's fail. Fail. FAIL.


Having jumped directly into heroics on a fresh 85 warrior, I'd have to cordially disagree. Granted, I had a crafted shield, an alch trinket, and a rep ring, but everything else was the blue crafted PvP. My healer was either a half-T11 raid geared paladin, or another reasonably fresh 85 guild alt (disc Priest). Neither had any difficulty healing me, but I also made an effort to be more pro-active using CDs.

I would suspect they will have to put in some kind of software check (don't count items with resilience in iLevel requirement checks, and actually enforce class-specific armor types), and only investigate instances where tickets are opened. I suspect logs would have to include a fair amount of extended information.

I'm half wondering if Blizzard is noodling around with the idea of implementing some sort of LoL-like Tribunal system. Crowdsourcing automated systems with appropriate checks and balances can be powerful stuff.
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Re: Proxy-queuing is (now) a bannable offense.

Postby Shoju » Thu Oct 06, 2011 11:45 am

fuzzygeek wrote:
Shoju wrote:Go heal a warrior, paladin, or Dk tank in full pvp gear then come back and talk. On a druid? Sure, PvP gear for tanking is just fine. ON the plate tanks? It's fail. Fail. FAIL.


Having jumped directly into heroics on a fresh 85 warrior, I'd have to cordially disagree. Granted, I had a crafted shield, an alch trinket, and a rep ring, but everything else was the blue crafted PvP. My healer was either a half-T11 raid geared paladin, or another reasonably fresh 85 guild alt (disc Priest). Neither had any difficulty healing me, but I also made an effort to be more pro-active using CDs.

I would suspect they will have to put in some kind of software check (don't count items with resilience in iLevel requirement checks, and actually enforce class-specific armor types), and only investigate instances where tickets are opened. I suspect logs would have to include a fair amount of extended information.

I'm half wondering if Blizzard is noodling around with the idea of implementing some sort of LoL-like Tribunal system. Crowdsourcing automated systems with appropriate checks and balances can be powerful stuff.


Go do it with a fresh dinged 85, in a pug, with someone you aren't guilded with. the results will be night and day. I'm not talking about guild runs. Hell, in guild runs now, I'm wearing TONS of my DPS gear when tanking, and pulling like a drunken sailor. But, it's a guildie. We have knowledge of things like that.

It just isn't the same in a full on pug.
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Re: Proxy-queuing is (now) a bannable offense.

Postby Doz » Thu Oct 06, 2011 12:10 pm

What's the source on this? Sorry, at work and can't check blizz.com or anything else really.

Or is this just "I heard this was happening from a friend of a friend"? You say it hasn't been "officialised", so where's the unofficial word coming from? thanks!
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Re: Proxy-queuing is (now) a bannable offense.

Postby fuzzygeek » Thu Oct 06, 2011 12:21 pm

Shoju wrote:It just isn't the same in a full on pug.


This would suggest the "...fail. Fail. FAIL." is more related to the fact that it is a pug tank, and not the PvP gear, would it not?

Not every run was with a pocket healer, although by the time I was still grinding gear on my tank and my healers were wanting to go to sleep, I had replaced a piece or three with badge gear. I continued to solo queue through the late evening and did not have a remarkably different experience.

It took me a day and a half of focused 5s to go from fresh 85 to raid MT capable. Quite a few of those dungeons were solo queued. The only thing that changed was how many packs of trash I would pull at once. With an unknown healer zoning in with sub-80k mana I would pull more conservatively; if the healer was around six digits, it was time for Speedball.

When I was playing my priest (AA disc), I don't ever recall failing because the tank was wearing PvP gear. To be fair, I never take the time to inspect pugs unless something is going terribly, terribly wrong.
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Re: Proxy-queuing is (now) a bannable offense.

Postby Shoju » Thu Oct 06, 2011 12:32 pm

fuzzygeek wrote:
Shoju wrote:It just isn't the same in a full on pug.


This would suggest the "...fail. Fail. FAIL." is more related to the fact that it is a pug tank, and not the PvP gear, would it not?

I don't think so. I think that it points to the fact that in a pug, without communication, without a rapport with your tank, you need to be wearing appropriate gear. Trying to run a heroic as a 335 geared healer with a plate tank rocking 358's that put him at 5% dodge, 11% parry, and 30% block is just not acceptable. you could wear green tank gear from quests and end up with better avoidance and mitigation numbers than that.

Not every run was with a pocket healer, although by the time I was still grinding gear on my tank and my healers were wanting to go to sleep, I had replaced a piece or three with badge gear. I continued to solo queue through the late evening and did not have a remarkably different experience.

It took me a day and a half of focused 5s to go from fresh 85 to raid MT capable. Quite a few of those dungeons were solo queued. The only thing that changed was how many packs of trash I would pull at once. With an unknown healer zoning in with sub-80k mana I would pull more conservatively; if the healer was around six digits, it was time for Speedball.

When I was playing my priest (AA disc), I don't ever recall failing because the tank was wearing PvP gear. To be fair, I never take the time to inspect pugs unless something is going terribly, terribly wrong.


and that's when I inspect. When I'm OOMing every single pull because you can't be bothered to CC and you can't be bothered to wear tank gear, I'm going to inspect you. I wish that they would just remove PVP gear from the game.
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Re: Proxy-queuing is (now) a bannable offense.

Postby Fetzie » Thu Oct 06, 2011 12:37 pm

Sorry, but this sounds like "my friend's cousin's best friend's girlfriend's brother got banned and he said it was because he queued for a 5man as tank", has anybody got any source for this?
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Re: Proxy-queuing is (now) a bannable offense.

Postby bldavis » Thu Oct 06, 2011 12:37 pm

all that means is you know wtf you are doing in both adn you got lucky with pug tanks

i have tanked and healed trolls and seen both tanks and healers in full pvp gear
if they know wtf they are doing, they are fine
if they went oo <ilvl MUST EQUIP!!! then they are making my supermarket run out of tylenol and advil all that much faster

and i second the fact that guild group =/= pugs
i do all kinds of shit in guild groups i would never do in pugs, mostly just trolling Lev, Ami, or one of our other healers/tanks

edit: i also almost never inspect pugs unless they are tank and i have more health as a healer, or if something goes terribad wrong and its like wtf..oh look pvp gear .... :evil:
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Re: Proxy-queuing is (now) a bannable offense.

Postby Shoju » Thu Oct 06, 2011 12:41 pm

bldavis wrote:and i second the fact that guild group =/= pugs
i do all kinds of shit in guild groups i would never do in pugs, mostly just trolling Lev, Ami, or one of our other healers/tanks

edit: i also almost never inspect pugs unless they are tank and i have more health as a healer, or if something goes terribad wrong and its like wtf..oh look pvp gear .... :evil:



Nothing like dying on an H:ZA run because the healer (pug) didn't look at the icons on names, and was healing the PvP geared Warrior and not me (the little goblin warrior) because the pvp warrior had more health.

I wanted to ask: DID YOU NOT SEE HE WASN'T TAKING DAMAGE YOU STUPID !)(@#&%$!(*&% ?
but no.... i just.... shutup.

Yeah. In a pug, there is no way that I'm pulling all three lynx packs on the way in dring ZA. But you better believe I did that to a guild R. Shaman. I made him blow every cd, and OOM while we killed those. (I do not recommend what I just said on a DK tank. It's bad news, and without a pro healer you are going to die.)
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