Nerfed block chance on Baleroc encounter?

Warning: Theorycraft inside.

Moderators: Fridmarr, Worldie, Aergis, theckhd

Re: Nerfed block chance on Baleroc encounter?

Postby theckhd » Fri Sep 09, 2011 5:44 am

My new suspicion is that somehow, Baleroc has a guaranteed % chance to hit with inferno strike. It would have to be small, probably 1%-5%. But that's the only thing I can think of that would explain what we're seeing.

What if, instead of removing miss from the Inferno Strike combat table, they just converted it to hit? That would place it lower on the table and make it impossible to push off. Which would then explain what we're seeing. I don't think we have enough data to be sure that the hit rate is around 4.4% though; maybe one of the longer heroic parses with lots of wipes would have enough Inferno Strikes to give us a reasonable confidence interval.
"Theck, Bringer of Numbers and Pounding Headaches," courtesy of Grehn|Skipjack.
Simcraft 6.x, Call to Arms 6.0, Talent Spec & Glyph Guide 6.x, Blog: Sacred Duty
User avatar
theckhd
Moderator
 
Posts: 8030
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:06 pm
Location: Harrisburg, PA

Re: Nerfed block chance on Baleroc encounter?

Postby Koatanga » Fri Sep 09, 2011 2:06 pm

I understand the interest in this topic from an empirical perspective, but for my raid, the danger time is not the inferno strike but the decimation strikes.

Inferno blade up means I pop a magic resist cooldown and laugh at his pathetic attempts to damage me.

On the other hand, decimation strikes hurt rather much, and require fast big heals to get me back to norm. It seems to me that while block-capping is great, reducing the chance of being hit by a decimation blade is the path to survivability here, so I tend to go heavy on dodge/parry rather than block chance.

Am I doing it wrong? The vast majority of tank deaths for my raid are during Decimation. I've never died from Inferno.
Retired. Koatanga, Shapely, Sultry, Doominatrix of Greenstone - Dath'Remar
Koatanga
 
Posts: 2025
Joined: Mon Nov 17, 2008 12:46 pm

Re: Nerfed block chance on Baleroc encounter?

Postby Rhiannon » Fri Sep 09, 2011 4:36 pm

Tengenstein wrote:As A warrior With Shield Block up i've had the following parse;

[20:52:53.360] Tengenstein casts Shield Block
[20:52:55.878] Baleroc Inferno Strike Tengenstein 70471 (A: 427, B: 31853, R: 15857)
[20:52:58.283] Baleroc Inferno Strike Tengenstein 42708 (A: 11670, B: 24431, R: 46910)
[20:53:00.667] Baleroc Inferno Strike Tengenstein 90619 (A: 743, B: 41047, R: 36780)
[20:53:03.245] Baleroc Inferno Strike Tengenstein 114158 (A: 16986, R: 36429)
[20:53:03.343] Tengenstein's Shield Block fades from Tengenstein

Being that SB should raise my CTC To about 114% unbuffed assuming he can't miss somthing is definetly up.


Given how close the unblocked hit is to sblock falling off, I don't think it's beyond the realm of possibility that server lag was responsible for the unblocked hit, unfortunately. However there should be a lot of prot warrior parses that could confirm this either way, more conclusively than the 0.1s margin here.
Rhiannon
 
Posts: 1061
Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2008 8:17 am

Re: Nerfed block chance on Baleroc encounter?

Postby theckhd » Fri Sep 09, 2011 6:33 pm

Koatanga wrote:Am I doing it wrong? The vast majority of tank deaths for my raid are during Decimation. I've never died from Inferno.


Many (most?) guilds use two different tanks for Inferno and Decimation Blades. Thus, each tank can tailor his gear to the role. Decimation can't be blocked, but can be avoided; Inferno can be blocked, but can't miss.

In any event, the point of this thread was mostly to try and figure out what the mechanics are, since they seem to defy convention.
"Theck, Bringer of Numbers and Pounding Headaches," courtesy of Grehn|Skipjack.
Simcraft 6.x, Call to Arms 6.0, Talent Spec & Glyph Guide 6.x, Blog: Sacred Duty
User avatar
theckhd
Moderator
 
Posts: 8030
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:06 pm
Location: Harrisburg, PA

Re: Nerfed block chance on Baleroc encounter?

Postby Yelena » Sat Sep 10, 2011 1:49 pm

theckhd wrote:
Koatanga wrote:Am I doing it wrong? The vast majority of tank deaths for my raid are during Decimation. I've never died from Inferno.


Many (most?) guilds use two different tanks for Inferno and Decimation Blades. Thus, each tank can tailor his gear to the role. Decimation can't be blocked, but can be avoided; Inferno can be blocked, but can't miss.

Number of tanks is generally based on raid size. One tank can handle 10-player fine, both normal and heroic. 25-player usually uses two tanks, unless the tank (and healers) has balls of solid steel, given Baleroc's swing timer is about twice as fast in that raid size. In 10m, the self-healing debuff does fall off for about 0.8 seconds between Decimation Strikes, which does allow for a properly timed LoH to be employed if necessary, such is not the case in 25m.
Valleri - Frostwolf
Yelena
 
Posts: 356
Joined: Sat Jun 27, 2009 4:54 am
Location: Behind the Eight Ball

Re: Nerfed block chance on Baleroc encounter?

Postby lythac » Sat Sep 10, 2011 5:53 pm

theckhd wrote:My new suspicion is that somehow, Baleroc has a guaranteed % chance to hit with inferno strike. It would have to be small, probably 1%-5%. But that's the only thing I can think of that would explain what we're seeing.


As a side note I have always thought that adding in a portion of 5% hit as the first thing on the combat table would be a good way to prevent block capping.
Ryshad / Lythac of <Heretic> Nagrand-EU
User avatar
lythac
Moderator
 
Posts: 2695
Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 8:10 am

Re: Nerfed block chance on Baleroc encounter?

Postby Koatanga » Sun Sep 11, 2011 6:15 pm

theckhd wrote:Many (most?) guilds use two different tanks for Inferno and Decimation Blades. Thus, each tank can tailor his gear to the role. Decimation can't be blocked, but can be avoided; Inferno can be blocked, but can't miss.
We're a 10-man guild, so I was in single-tank mindset.

theckhd wrote:In any event, the point of this thread was mostly to try and figure out what the mechanics are, since they seem to defy convention.

I understand - was just curious why it was worried about so much when a magic cooldown pretty much nerfs it. However, with a 2-tank strat, of course it would be of great concern for the tank whose job it was to eat it.
Retired. Koatanga, Shapely, Sultry, Doominatrix of Greenstone - Dath'Remar
Koatanga
 
Posts: 2025
Joined: Mon Nov 17, 2008 12:46 pm

Re: Nerfed block chance on Baleroc encounter?

Postby Treck » Tue Oct 04, 2011 4:54 pm

So, apparently priest shields interfere with the blocking system.
And dont know if its just a combat log bugg or not, but apparently sometimes if the shield absorbs and you take damage, you cannot block that attack.

Related? If so, you basicly cant cap yourself on baleroc, or any other fight for that matter.
And since Baleroc is such a wierd fight for tanks and healers with so insane numbers, maybe its acting up more than it should?

Dunno, just a theory.
User avatar
Treck
 
Posts: 2129
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 8:10 am

Re: Nerfed block chance on Baleroc encounter?

Postby Worldie » Tue Oct 04, 2011 11:46 pm

Uhm unless priests are capable of making 30k+ absorbs, I'd say that just the combat log can't handle the Block+Absorb system well, and shows a blockedabsorbed hit as only absorbed.
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
User avatar
Worldie
Global Mod
 
Posts: 13657
Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2007 1:49 pm
Location: Italy

Re: Nerfed block chance on Baleroc encounter?

Postby Treck » Wed Oct 05, 2011 2:02 am

Priest shields usually absorbs +30k.
User avatar
Treck
 
Posts: 2129
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 8:10 am

Re: Nerfed block chance on Baleroc encounter?

Postby Worldie » Wed Oct 05, 2011 4:07 am

o_o then I haven't seen a disc priest in raid in quite a while!

Then not sure about it, forget my post.
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
User avatar
Worldie
Global Mod
 
Posts: 13657
Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2007 1:49 pm
Location: Italy

Re: Nerfed block chance on Baleroc encounter?

Postby Rhiannon » Wed Oct 05, 2011 9:45 am

Treck wrote:So, apparently priest shields interfere with the blocking system.
And dont know if its just a combat log bugg or not, but apparently sometimes if the shield absorbs and you take damage, you cannot block that attack.

Related? If so, you basicly cant cap yourself on baleroc, or any other fight for that matter.
And since Baleroc is such a wierd fight for tanks and healers with so insane numbers, maybe its acting up more than it should?

Dunno, just a theory.


Mm, 95% sure that quite a few of the unblocked hits I was seeing when I first started looking at this were with no absorb component at all, ie no shield up at the time. And now that I know about the absorbs/hits parsing bug in WoL I'm not seeing unblocked hits on any other fights where I'm block capped, so pretty sure this is a Baleroc specific thing.
Rhiannon
 
Posts: 1061
Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2008 8:17 am

Previous

Return to Advanced Theorycraft and Calculations

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Yahoo [Bot] and 1 guest

Who is online

In total there are 2 users online :: 1 registered, 0 hidden and 1 guest (based on users active over the past 5 minutes)
Most users ever online was 380 on Tue Oct 14, 2008 6:28 pm

Users browsing this forum: Yahoo [Bot] and 1 guest