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Interesting Lore Discussion Thread

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Re: Interesting Lore Discussion Thread

Postby Passionario » Wed Sep 28, 2011 5:29 am

The new faction leader story certainly answers quite a few questions.
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Re: Interesting Lore Discussion Thread

Postby Sagara » Wed Sep 28, 2011 5:35 am

Yeah, I tought back to this topic when I read it.

I'm sticking to my guns - Sylv' needs to be brought down like the rabid beast she is, pronto. (Altought, I'm feeling a bit bittersweet about the thing)

I'm not as gung-ho about every last Forsaken, but Sylvie'? She's raising people from the dead, and builds a cult of personality to create a personal army of fanatics to escape the jugement from Beyond. If that doesn't sound evil enough...
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Worldie wrote:I used to like it [mean] back on Sylvanas.

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Re: Interesting Lore Discussion Thread

Postby Passionario » Wed Sep 28, 2011 6:53 am

Of course killing people to postpone your own descent into hell is evil, but at least it's a well-known and understandable evil. That doesn't justify Sylvanas's post-Cataclysm actions, but it goes a long way towards explaining them.
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Re: Interesting Lore Discussion Thread

Postby Sagara » Wed Sep 28, 2011 7:27 am

Indeed :)

I actually love to hate her - she's the poor little girl that became a monster first to lash out at an unjust world, then to protect herself from just deserts.

This is exactly the type a foe a Paladin would find heartwrenching - there but for a mad prince raising us from the dead go we.
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Worldie wrote:I used to like it [mean] back on Sylvanas.

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Re: Interesting Lore Discussion Thread

Postby Dantriges » Wed Sep 28, 2011 7:43 am

I wonder if her final destination had anything to do with her choice of location. She threw herself on a big bunch of Saronite and we know from the quests in the mine that Saronite affects the living. It´s a metal closely tied to an Old God. Dying through a bunch of Saronite spikes could have sent her soul right into the grasp of Yogg.

Or it´s the Dark. The presence of Arthas seems to indicate that it has not much to do with the Old Gods. Still, he died on a big tower made out of it, surrounded by it and well he was there longer than Sylvanas. The other indicator that it´s not the mind of the Old god is that the valkyr were able to get her out. But well, quite alot of people already walked around in his mind during the battle.

You could make a case that Yogg is already slain but if Ragnaros is still alive unless you kill him at home, we can assume that kiling an old God on the mortal plane only snaps the tendrils he has extended into it.
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Re: Interesting Lore Discussion Thread

Postby Sabindeus » Wed Sep 28, 2011 8:13 am

I really really loved the Sylvanas story. It did two things to cement my existing opinions:
1. Show what an evil, vain, arrogant, cowardly bitch Sylvanas is.
2. Show how awesome Garrosh is.

two thumbs up
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Re: Interesting Lore Discussion Thread

Postby Shoju » Wed Sep 28, 2011 8:13 am

Needs more Vol'jin
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Re: Interesting Lore Discussion Thread

Postby Sabindeus » Wed Sep 28, 2011 8:17 am

Sagara wrote:This is exactly the type a foe a Paladin would find heartwrenching - there but for a mad prince raising us from the dead go we.

/disagree
No real Paladin would go that route.

Look at what happened to Bolvar. He was prevented from dying and subjected to agony we can't even describe while burning from the inside from the dragon's fire. And yet he stuck right to his convictions to the bitter end, sacrificing himself so that others could live free of the scourge threat. That man knows fear. And he refuses to let it win.

As a Paladin, I might take pity upon those who lose to fear, but never would I feel remorse for striking them down.
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Re: Interesting Lore Discussion Thread

Postby Sabindeus » Wed Sep 28, 2011 8:17 am

Shoju wrote:Needs more Vol'jin

they already did a vol'jin story...
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Re: Interesting Lore Discussion Thread

Postby Shoju » Wed Sep 28, 2011 8:22 am

Every story is better with more Vol'jin, and less Garrosh.

It's kind of like Cowbell and Celine Dion.

Every song is better with more Cowbell, and every song is better with less Celine Dion.
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Re: Interesting Lore Discussion Thread

Postby Sabindeus » Wed Sep 28, 2011 8:41 am

yeah well my heart will go on for Garrosh. <3
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Re: Interesting Lore Discussion Thread

Postby Dantriges » Wed Sep 28, 2011 8:55 am

Garrosh awesome? I am impressed by his rhetorical skills, underwhelmed by his tactical acumen. Its not like Sylvanas presented some genius tactic or wanted to use the cheap answer of chemical warfare.

Go round the wall, take them from behind or at least divert resources instead of assaulting their strong point. That Garrosh guy is good for morale bolstering troops and leading an assault, leave strategy and tactics to the professionals. No wonder, Silverymoon sent advisors to Orgrimmar.

And well, he is not watchin her closely not because of a political sense but because she wounded his pride.

He is just your average barbarian warlord. So he would win the battle, lose the war.

And Sylvanas, well it was cowardly, but I think 99,999% of the whole population would take every way out of eternal torment. So yeah, she is an evil bitch who tries to evade the final consequence. Well, what a surprise.
Last edited by Dantriges on Wed Sep 28, 2011 9:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Interesting Lore Discussion Thread

Postby Shoju » Wed Sep 28, 2011 8:57 am

Sabindeus wrote:yeah well my heart will go on for Garrosh. <3


You are a bad man.
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Re: Interesting Lore Discussion Thread

Postby Sabindeus » Wed Sep 28, 2011 9:16 am

Dantriges wrote:Garrosh awesome? I am impressed by his rhetorical skills, underwhelmed by his tactical acumen. Its not like Sylvanas presented some genius tactic or wanted to use the cheap answer of chemical warfare.

Go round the wall, take them from behind or at least divert resources instead of assaulting their strong point. That Garrosh guy is good for morale bolstering troops and leading an assault, leave strategy and tactics to the professionals. No wonder, Silverymoon sent advisors to Orgrimmar.

And well, he is not watchin her closely not because of a political sense but because she wounded his pride.

He is just your average barbarian warlord. So he would win the battle, lose the war.

And Sylvanas, well it was cowardly, but I think 99,999% of the whole population would take every way out of eternal torment. So yeah, she is an evil bitch who tries to evade the final consequence. Well, what a surprise.


When you have warriors that you consider disposable and you don't mind throwing their lives away then Garrosh's tactics were just fine. The reason he acceded to her command was that her presence had suddenly removed control of his disposable warriors. I don't think you can conclude from this that he would "lose the war" as you put it.

He is watching her closely because he looked in her eyes and saw the haunted resolve there. He considers her dangerous and a threat, having nothing to do with his pride.

And Sylvanas, well it was cowardly, but I think 99,999% of the whole population would take every way out of eternal torment. So yeah, she is an evil bitch who tries to evade the final consequence. Well, what a surprise.


Well I won't be surprised, but that definitely makes her less of a hero.
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Re: Interesting Lore Discussion Thread

Postby Passionario » Wed Sep 28, 2011 9:29 am

Sabindeus wrote:
Dantriges wrote:
And Sylvanas, well it was cowardly, but I think 99,999% of the whole population would take every way out of eternal torment. So yeah, she is an evil bitch who tries to evade the final consequence. Well, what a surprise.


Well I won't be surprised, but that definitely makes her less of a hero.


I'd say that the real hero and utter badass of this story is neither Sylvanas nor Garrosh, but Annhylde.
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