25[H] Ragnaros

[madmessias]

No thread up for this so yea.
So yea, did a few pulls on this today, mainly we seem to struggle with the transition (edit: managed quite easy now), never managed it (Didn't do many pulls at all yet)
Got 2x hunters, 2x moonkins, 1x dk, 2x spriest, 1x demolock, think thats enough to get the adds in p2 down?

[Treck]

We never dont it with the aoe strat, but that looks like more than enough to kill them these days.
Remember they lost hp with the recent nerf so they should be a lot easier to kill.
Just remember you dont stop running untill they are dead.
Theres some tips and tricks to how to get some meele into the adds aswell, located in the 10[H] topic if you wanna dig it up.

[PsiVen]

I thought the Molten Elementals were not nerfed in HP, only Rag?

[Treck]

Their HP was reduced by 10%, effectivly around 30k hp.
When single targeting them down, we didnt notice any differance, but when aoeing them down, its a pretty significant differance.
Thats over half a million less damage you have to do on the adds, so they die a lot faster using the aoe strat.
Most guilds killing them usually blew them up, so they were at about 50-70% before they had time to move, then aoe'd while they were running and then they had to start running when the Elementals reached the camp (and usually they are always at 10-20% hp at that stage, kiting them the last percentages.
With 10% less hp, they are pretty much dead before they reach you for experienced guilds, and should be a lot shorter learning curve for new guilds trying the fight.

[madmessias]

We never dont it with the aoe strat, but that looks like more than enough to kill them these days.
Remember they lost hp with the recent nerf so they should be a lot easier to kill.
Just remember you dont stop running untill they are dead.
Theres some tips and tricks to how to get some meele into the adds aswell, located in the 10[H] topic if you wanna dig it up.

Yea we are starting seeds to the left and our arms warrior will spawn his seed to the right, his add will be stunned by a pala, this should be the best meele alternative right?

[Treck]

I think most people have the people spawning outside seeds spawn them behind the main group.
That way when your running with the main group of Elementals, your running away from your own add aswell, unlike towards as it could cause problems and im not sure a stunn or 2 is enough when your killing the adds.
Im sure its doable, and he needs to be on his toes and keep an eye out for his add (he will have to do this to some extent anyway tho)

Warriors are a good choise since they have heroic leap/intervene to get into the group fast and easy.
You spawn your add further away from where your gonna stand when they blow up, so they can get to that place faster, i think thats the general way of doing it.
If its on the same place each time, its easy for hunters to place slowtrap on it, stunns them for a while and then slow (but maybe they cant use aoetrap on the adds then? i honestly dont know how hunters work).
Have designated Arcane mages cast slow on them and/or dps them aswell, as they are pretty poor at aoeing unless they are inside the group aswell (mages do work fine aswell, but more unreliable)

[madmessias]

How do the seeds work tho? Says in the dungeon journal that it only targets 20people?

[Treck]

Ragnaros targets the majority of your raid with Seeds, and have them jump up the lava to land on you to damage, then explode doing damage again, this time based on the distance between you and the explosion.
Then the Elemental that comes out from the seed starts with main threat on the person it spawned on, and you cant really overaggro it unless that person uses threatdumps.

[madmessias]

Ragnaros targets the majority of your raid with Seeds, and have them jump up the lava to land on you to damage, then explode doing damage again, this time based on the distance between you and the explosion.
Then the Elemental that comes out from the seed starts with main threat on the person it spawned on, and you cant really overaggro it unless that person uses threatdumps.

Ah so i guess 5people are not targeted, suppose theres no way of telling except for checking the nameplates.
Right now our CD rotation is
1st seed warrior (reck+BS) and DK pops their cd's.
2th seed, both our moonkins pop their big cd's.
3th No plan for this, just popping all we got.

How about for the third seed we have all our 3x mages pop mirror images and blink in and aoe, instead of the warrior going in for that? Or will he be able to do more damage? (His Bladestorm should be up, but not recklessnes)
Anyways, do you know any pov with someone going in to aoe the seeds? Had some problems with seeds, so figured we could have one ahead of the raid (the warrior) cause that worked fine last time with a slow+stun on the add, but maybe a demolock/arcanemage/feraldruid could do the same and he outruns his add?

Or maybe this should be better, just to maximize our cd's.
First seed: Both moonkins and warrior reckstorm.
Second seed: All three mages.
Third seed both moonkins and the DK.(+ normal storm)

That way the 3min cd's should be up for first and third seed. What do you think about the mages aoeing? Will it be to weak compared to a bladestorm or something? Also, will a starfall be up for every seed?

[mort]

Starfall has a 1 minute cooldown so yes it will be up for all 3 waves, but it wont be doing a whole lot of damage since the moonkins will be in solar eclipse for mushrooms and hurricane. A frost death knight's Pillar of Frost, which is their only AoE damage cooldown aside from Empower Rune Blade, also has a 1 minute cooldown and can be used on every seed wave.

[Kishandra]

Starfall has a 1 minute cooldown so yes it will be up for all 3 waves, but it wont be doing a whole lot of damage since the moonkins will be in solar eclipse for mushrooms and hurricane. A frost death knight's Pillar of Frost, which is their only AoE damage cooldown aside from Empower Rune Blade, also has a 1 minute cooldown and can be used on every seed wave.

Damage breakdown for molten elementals in our raid:

13% boomkin
8% each hunters x 2
6% each felguard x 2
6% warrior (lolheroic leap)
5% each frost dk x 4
... rest is 4% or below

Boomkin breakdown itself -
60% shrooms
12% hurricane
9% typhoon
9% starfall
... misc others.

Long story short: bring more druids -_-

[rijn dael]

More druids is handy for the sons anyway - but you don't really need them for seeds.

As per the 10m thread - you should see a fairly significant spike if people with longer cooldowns spawn theirs out, blow them on one wave, then run as per normal the other waves - while other people blow theirs. Eg demo meta on wave 1 + potentially 3rd wave, kitty berserk + swipe fest, etc etc.

[sakkdaddy]

Seeds really aren't so bad once everyone pulls their weight and stops dying to random shit. We usually have 2 moonkins, 3 dk's, 2-3 hunters, a shadowpriest, and a warlock AoEing each pack, and that's hardly a stacked raid. The shadowpriest just moves toward the center of the room more instead of towards the raid group so that when his elemental reaches him, its buffs have dropped. We pre-HOP a warlock each round so they can blow meta and do some extra AoE. This stuff isn't even so necessary if the raid moves away from the adds properly.

The thing that will help your AoErs most, especially hunters and DK's, is to have target macros for HB and multishot. Warlocks should also use target macros for their felguards, because their pet is a huge source of AoE damage. Target acquisition and intelligent play is more important than your raid setup, as long as your raid is fairly balanced to begin with. You can do more tricks if your raid setup is difficult as well, but we usually don't do more than positioning a shadowpriest outside the main group and HoP'ing a warlock each wave.

[Belloc]

What exactly does pre-HoPing a warlock do? I was under the impression that HoP did not prevent elementals from attacking.

[madmessias]

What exactly does pre-HoPing a warlock do? I was under the impression that HoP did not prevent elementals from attacking.

It only spawns 20 elementals, and if u got HoP when the seeds spawn they wont target you.