Class feedback - paladins.

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Class feedback - paladins.

Postby Firas » Mon Sep 12, 2011 12:10 pm

North America topic:

European topic:
A lot of good questions posed by the blizzard team to be answered. It's good to give them feedback, but also great as a community discuss each others ideas and suggestions.

The idea here is to discuss others opinions, not flame them.

Makes for good discussion here as well, mainly focusing on these questions:
What are your biggest quality-of-life issues? For instance, no longer requiring ammo could be considered a quality-of-life improvement for hunters.

What makes playing your class more fun?

What makes playing your class less fun?

How do you feel about your “rotation”? (Rotation is the accepted order in which abilities are used to maximum efficiency.)

What’s on your wish list for your class?

What spells do you use the least?


My personal thoughts:

From a purely Prot PvE viewpoint, A quality of life change to me would be making seals a permanent buff. Not game breaking for PvE honestly, just a convenience change.

Tanking as a general idea is what makes the class fun for me to be honest.

However the idea of tanks being more of a "boss controlling dps" is sort of lame to me.

Personally I don't really find a problem with the rotation being all that terrible minus the huge CD on WoG, kinda removes the choice of using holy power for Prot paladins.

My biggest wish list is for them to retake a look at Ardent defender. Anytime I ever have to use it I never really see the proc due to avoidance luck (personal experience.) Every time I use it to hopefully live I simply dodge, and parry attacks and the ability simply goes to waste. I've gone to using it from a life saving mechanic to just another damage reducing CD. Personally I'd rather see the life saving effect go back to being a passive effect.

My least use spells are any healing spells outside of Word of Glory (rarely used) and Holy Radiance.
I use Exorcism and and Inquisition on the pull and that's about it for those, and very rarely do I need to use Consecration.

So I ask you now, what (do you/did you) think of these questions, and how (did you/will you) answer them?

EDIT: Keep in mind this next quote was also part of their threads.
Here is the kind of feedback that is NOT helpful in this particular thread: Concerns that your current damage, healing or tanking is not competitive. While this kind of feedback is often useful, it also is the kind of thing that can change from patch to patch, and so it isn’t as useful for long term vision changes.
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Re: Class feedback - paladins.

Postby Belloc » Mon Sep 12, 2011 3:10 pm

I have no comment on the state of protection paladins, except to say that I think we're perfectly fine.
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Re: Class feedback - paladins.

Postby Nakama » Mon Sep 12, 2011 3:30 pm

I responded in the U.S. thread on post #586.

I mostly echoed what was said above, but definitely have a few spells I wish they'd do away with or make useful: Turn Evil, Seal of Justice and Divine Shield (since it now basically = Ice Block).

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Re: Class feedback - paladins.

Postby PsiVen » Mon Sep 12, 2011 6:40 pm

I am quite happy with how paladins are currently, but our mastery has untenable scaling issues and I am concerned about mechanics changes forcing us to focus more on Holy Power for survival or something like that.

The only thing I'm not happy about is PvP. As I predicted in Beta, Prot PvP is dreadful and we have no way of catching opponents. I realize that's not a high priority, but there are a million ways to improve our PvP mobility without screwing with PvE much if at all (we could use some slight mobility buffs in PvE as well though). These solutions were all ignored and the only change we got was Ret getting to self-cleanse again for some spells. I hate not being able to dispel myself.
Gladiator Psiven, Retired Tankadin
Falling off the wagon since WoD release...
Longtime addict of Space - Glory Through Conquest
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Re: Class feedback - paladins.

Postby Fenrìr » Tue Sep 13, 2011 12:40 am

I claimed posts 995 and 996 (stupid 5k chara limit) in the US thread.

My big things for Prot were the lack of a mob closing ability, threat needing to go back to something we should worry about rather than being able to potentially AFK a fight, survival glyphs and a change to Ardent Defender.

For Ret, I think 99% of people are asking for less RNG, myself included.

Not going to lie, but this made my chuckle rather loudly. I'm not flaming the kid, I just wanted to share the highlight of my day so far.

What’s on your wish list for your class?
Faster holy power regen.

What spells do you use the least?
Crusader strike and non-prot abilites. I dont follow the ''you must cast this to tank'' guides on this forum. If it works for me, i use it. Otherwise, i dont bother.
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Re: Class feedback - paladins.

Postby culhag » Tue Sep 13, 2011 2:04 am

I've done my duty there.

Here's my thoughts as a tank doing Heroic 25-man raids (currently at 6/7)

My biggest QoL issue is with misses and parries and dodges.
I HATE it when I go through all my spells twice and I still don't have 3 HoPo.
It's really annoying when I have to cast ShoR three times to get it off.

And yet I really can't justify taking any hit or expertise rating, because they're just completely useless for tanking.

I like the choice between CS and HotR for single-target vs. AoE.
I don't like Holy Wrath and Consecration. They're lackluster in single-target and not very powerful for AoE. And they're very expensive.

I really don't like being the only tank with a powerful raid CD. I hate felling like I'm only asked to tank because of that.

I like being able to heal myself and others to an extent. Throwing Word of Glory or Lay on Hands at the right moment can save a tricky situation. I'd really love Holy Radiance to be more useful ; I use it because it's there, but it's lost in the noise of the "real" healers.
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Re: Class feedback - paladins.

Postby KysenMurrin » Tue Sep 13, 2011 2:06 am

I posted in the Shaman thread, because I don't have much to say about Paladins these days. They're okay right now, but I don't feel particularly strongly about them either way.
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Re: Class feedback - paladins.

Postby Shyrtandros » Tue Sep 13, 2011 12:07 pm

Wings animation = instant dispell in PVP, it's always annoyed me.
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Re: Class feedback - paladins.

Postby Arianne » Tue Sep 13, 2011 3:00 pm

I'd like to text data mine the answers for this thread, but I'm not sure if doing so would be against ToS. I guess I could screen scrape it all once into text files and then try to parse common keywords.
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Re: Class feedback - paladins.

Postby fafhrd » Tue Sep 13, 2011 3:22 pm

I requested more plate skirts and tanktops :X
1/1 Lore pre-nerf.
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Re: Class feedback - paladins.

Postby Amshel » Tue Sep 13, 2011 3:27 pm

fafhrd wrote:tanktops :X

I see what you did there.
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Re: Class feedback - paladins.

Postby melisandyr » Tue Sep 13, 2011 4:00 pm

Surely it's now time to get rid of bubble, and replace it with a well thought out replacement that acts differently for Holy, Ret and Prot?

For Prot I'd like to switch places with someone within 40 yards who is taking damage.

Ret could get something to help them close with the foe, such as holy heroic leap.

Not sure for Holy.
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Re: Class feedback - paladins.

Postby rodos » Tue Sep 13, 2011 6:35 pm

melisandyr wrote:Surely it's now time to get rid of bubble, and replace it with a well thought out replacement that acts differently for Holy, Ret and Prot?

For Prot I'd like to switch places with someone within 40 yards who is taking damage.

Ret could get something to help them close with the foe, such as holy heroic leap.

Not sure for Holy.

For holy, I'd like something that makes me immune to damage and interrupts, so that when something goes bad I can stop wherever I am (even in the fire) and focus on healing everyone else, relying on PotI to get me out of danger by the time it wears off. Oh, wait…

Anyway, currently can't switch toons on the official site to post this on my pally, so I'll put it here for now. Somewhat OT for this forum, since it's mostly from Holy PoV, but whatever.

What are your biggest quality-of-life issues?
* Not being able to take DPS talents in a standard raid build. It would be nice to do dailies as Holy.
* Spec switching stealing all your mana is annoying. If you're doing dailies as Ret, say, and queue for a dungeon as heals, the other players tend to get annoyed when you have to stop and drink for 30s.
* Divine Plea penalty still seems harsh. Compared to Innervate, it restores less mana on a shorter cooldown but the penalty means it's very hard to take advantage of that in many fights.

* No pre-casting on a "hard" CD. Doing a CS-X-CS-X rotation with some latency (I have 200ms) you always have to spam the CS button.
* Unreliable holy power generation.

What makes playing your class more fun?
Pulling off nice healing combos like DL-Daybreak-HS-HS-WoG
Effectively using Holy's varied cooldowns.
Unique and useful abilities like HoJ, glyphed AW stun, HoSac, Bubble, LoH.
Mini-sprint from Radiance and DP is awesome.

What makes playing your class less fun?
Sitting on 3 Holy Power with nothing good to use it on.
Auto-attacking during dead-spots in Ret rotation.
Not being able to have a 3rd spec for coverage of all 3 roles.

How do you feel about your “rotation”?
Holy is pretty good, but needs another finisher (or replacement for LoD). A self-buff like Inquisition would be good (haste would be fantastic), or maybe a mana refund.
Ret rotation has too much dead space. Pushing towards a 3s+latency CS in late LK, and dealing with the rotation changes, was more interesting.

What’s on your wish list for your class?
The return of DI. It was fun and useful. I don't see how it could really be exploited with Mass Res any more than Invisibility, Feign Death or Shadowmeld.
A universally-useful ultimate talent for Holy.
Ability to do decent AoE heals outside of a Radiance+Hero/DF/AW period.
Ability to wield staves and daggers. Or a weapon-type reforger.

What spells do you use the least?
Light of Dawn (10-man raider - I cast it on Majordomo and that's all)
Turn Evil - highly situation as PvE CC due to the running
Seal of Justice
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