Censure Buff

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Censure Buff

Postby sahiel » Fri Sep 09, 2011 4:03 pm

Originally Posted by Daxxarri
After monitoring thousands of Firelands kills, we've concluded that Retribution’s damage was not where we wanted it to be, so we're going to increase Censure damage by roughly 40%. We'll also be keeping an eye on paladin damage as we move towards patch 4.3. We expect that this hotfix should be applied sometime later today.

We're also considering shifting some of the damage from Hammer of Wrath into other attacks. While that may not necessarily cure some of the current concerns about proc reliance, it should help smooth out damage a bit.


http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/3123317275

I know since threat is pretty much now meaningless this isn't a big deal but figured people might be interested, free damage is free but still, it's not as if prots damage is going to change to the point where we're making any more of a noticeable contribution than we currently are I'd guess.
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Re: Censure Buff

Postby Jeremoot » Fri Sep 09, 2011 4:19 pm

So that's what, a ~1600 DPS increase if it applies to Prot?
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Re: Censure Buff

Postby Treck » Fri Sep 09, 2011 5:53 pm

More like around 500dps, not 1500.
Its not like its going to be making much differance for us anyway, but more dps is always fine i guess.
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Re: Censure Buff

Postby Worldie » Fri Sep 09, 2011 6:28 pm

I'm quite glad they sort of realized Ret damage is nowhere near to being good :P
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Re: Censure Buff

Postby theckhd » Fri Sep 09, 2011 6:40 pm

Would anyone be willing to head to a dummy and generate a few parses for me? I want to confirm the new coefficients.

Ideally I'd want 3 quick parses in different gear configurations:
1) naked except for weapon
2) wearing full tank gear with mastery trinkets
3) same tank gear, but swapping out one or both mastery trinkets for INT trinkets (same AP as #2, but higher SP).

I'd also need the AP/SP values in each configuration. And obviously, please be in a protection spec (just in case the buff was ret-spec-specific somehow). For each parse, just auto-attack a dummy to stack Censure to 5 and then stop attacking until the debuff wears off.

Not sure if I'll get to analyzing it tonight, as I'm traveling this weekend, but it'll be a simple enough thing to calculate from the parses if I find 20 spare minutes.
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Re: Censure Buff

Postby Crimsonheart » Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:17 pm

even if it is only 500dps, its 5kdps on aly's hatchlings which has been a big problem for many prot pallies (effectivly we can probalby take off a piece of threat gear or a dps trinket)
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Re: Censure Buff

Postby Radience » Sat Sep 10, 2011 12:45 am

That's strange if they just buffed censure damage for all specs. Imho prot paladin dps is fine as it is, how can alysrazor's hatchlings cause problems for paladins?
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Re: Censure Buff

Postby Phonic » Sat Sep 10, 2011 12:54 am

I agree. I feel prot damage is fine. I have no issues on Alys and even pull upwards of 134K on the first hatch. I always beat my bear co-tank to the kill as well. That's with all Prot spec, gear, and 1 stam trinket, 1 str mastery trinket.
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Re: Censure Buff

Postby Crimsonheart » Sat Sep 10, 2011 2:18 am

I dunno Im playing my shadowpriest now, my tank is our backup. I just know that the tanks in my teams i run with (run on my rogue in a 2nd grp) have problems breaching 90k...but i think all of them haven't gotten a weapon upgrade either (still in 365s or 359s).
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Re: Censure Buff

Postby Fetzie » Sat Sep 10, 2011 2:49 am

Based on a baleroc 10 n kill:

Prot: 373157 damage from censure. 40% of this is 149262.9. Fight duration of 4:22, which is 262 seconds. 569.7 dps increase.
Retr: 474958 damage from censure. 40% of this is 189983.2. Fight duration of 4:22, which is 262 seconds. 725.1 dps increase.

Based on a ragnaros 10n kill:

Prot: 599398 damage from censure. 40% of this is 239759.2. Fight duration of 8:42, which is 522 seconds. 459.3 dps increase.
Retr: 929285 damage from censure. 40% of this is 371714. Fight duration of 8:42, which is 522 seconds. 712.1 dps increase.

The retribution dps increase looks to be fairly easy, the slightly lower dps at rag can probably be attributed to phase transitions. However, a difference of 13 dps in the two increases is hardly very much at all. The lower dps increase for me as the prot pala on ragnaros can probably be attributed to stopping attacking shortly after a tank swap, or leaving the boss in P2 to help out on adds.
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Re: Censure Buff

Postby Ocin » Sat Sep 10, 2011 8:38 am

Phonic wrote:I agree. I feel prot damage is fine. I have no issues on Alys and even pull upwards of 134K on the first hatch. I always beat my bear co-tank to the kill as well. That's with all Prot spec, gear, and 1 stam trinket, 1 str mastery trinket.


I think if you look at worldoflogs.com we're a little low on the DPS totem pole for fights like Alys. I'm guessing this might bring us up to par:

http://www.worldoflogs.com/rankings/pla ... r/10N/dps/

EDIT: or not, based on Pyrea's post. Guess we'll find out when new raid IDs go out.
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Re: Censure Buff

Postby Treck » Sat Sep 10, 2011 11:59 am

Were low?
Did you look at the DKs?

Yes druids are good, esp with their CDs make them really strong on alysrazor.
Warriors have higher dps in normal cases, so the fact that they clearly win the dps on alysrazor doesnt suprise me.
Also your linking from 10man normal, heroic the dps is way different, and i beat my warrior counterpart every time.
Logs arnt really fair eather since top spots will make sure that their "flyers" wont dps the birds.
Look at the 25man heroicmodes and compare, all classes are within 10k dps of eachother.

On Alysrazor the censure buff it going to be what? 5-7k more dps?
When crusaderstrike hits for around 200k, its going to make the add die like one maybe 2 gcds faster.
An avengers shield procc would pull out 10times the dps of this "minor" buff.
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Re: Censure Buff

Postby KysenMurrin » Sat Sep 10, 2011 12:43 pm

Could be that the other change - shifting damage onto other abilities from HoWrath - might wind up affecting prot, too. Depends where they add the damage, in talents or talented abilities, or baseline.
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Re: Censure Buff

Postby Ocin » Sun Sep 11, 2011 10:30 am

Treck wrote:Were low?
Did you look at the DKs?

Yes druids are good, esp with their CDs make them really strong on alysrazor.
Warriors have higher dps in normal cases, so the fact that they clearly win the dps on alysrazor doesnt suprise me.
Also your linking from 10man normal, heroic the dps is way different, and i beat my warrior counterpart every time.
Logs arnt really fair eather since top spots will make sure that their "flyers" wont dps the birds.
Look at the 25man heroicmodes and compare, all classes are within 10k dps of eachother.

On Alysrazor the censure buff it going to be what? 5-7k more dps?
When crusaderstrike hits for around 200k, its going to make the add die like one maybe 2 gcds faster.
An avengers shield procc would pull out 10times the dps of this "minor" buff.


Calm down, I'm not going to make a spreadsheet to make a casual observation that our DPS is a little lower than other tank's in normal 10 man gear vs. 25H gear and that the censure buff isn't welcome.

EDIT: I had to go in 5 pages in before 1 paladin tank showed up on 10 man heroic and then 2 more showed up on page 7. There were also blood DK tanks that showed up on page 4, not to mention blood DKs are apparently struggling to survive on heroic encounters and may not be equally represented.

There is a serious attitude problem among some posters here lately and on tankspot that I'm just having a hard time understanding.
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Re: Censure Buff

Postby PsiVen » Sun Sep 11, 2011 4:52 pm

Alysrazor WoL parse DPS has very little relationship with how much DPS you do while tanking hatchlings. You have a strict damage limit set by the health of your add minus whatever DPS other players put into it, and a very loose time window where killing the add 20 seconds faster has virtually no effect (you can run around meleeing other mobs without the 1000% damage buff, with a lot of travel time etc.) In short you really can't determine anything from ranked parses on Alysrazor unless you pick out in detail when each hatchling died and how much help they had.

Hatchling DPS is "a big problem" for any new tank learning the fight. I don't really think paladins can be characterized as having a disadvantage unless you have a burning desire to solo tank it (which is something you can pick out from WoL -- check out the top parses on 10/25N which are head and shoulders above the rest; warriors seem to have the upper hand here).
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