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Fresh 70 ftl - SH / SV

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Fresh 70 ftl - SH / SV

Postby Snake-Aes » Wed Dec 26, 2007 10:06 am

Well, I hit level 70...2 days ago? And got myself the felsteel set, timewarden's leggings waiting just on my jc to hit 360 for a +12def gem, and still have to enchant my blade with +40 spell damage. Other than what you see in my sig, I have Shield of the Wayward something, and Regal Protectorate, netting 493~ defense, and staying a bit over 50% avoidance. Can I tank Shattered Halls / Steamvault already? I gave it a try but got smashed...can't tell if it's me or the healer that sucked(pugs...;/sigh)

I tanked SL and BM(before continuum blade and helm enchant) successfully, so I am really in doubt if I can't tank those two and the healer sucked.
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Postby Zeels » Wed Dec 26, 2007 10:41 am

You should be able to tank normals, esp steamvaluts. Shattered halls is a bit harder (I actually didn't notice that much difference between heroic sh and normal sh, at least not if you compare the other dungeons).
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Postby kalbear » Wed Dec 26, 2007 10:45 am

You should be fine. However, both instances you need to be on your toes a bit. There are some tricky pulls and some really hard boss fights that will kill your party if they're not ready, even on normal. SH especially is known for the tough pulls here and there.

BM and SL are cake by comparison to SH. Especially BM for a paladin. Steamvaults shouldn't be that bad, honestly, provided that you don't overpull and you make sure you know the boss fights. One boss fight (the mech) is trivially easy given a paladin, but there are lots of mobs that silence and fear. Make sure to use CC liberally in both until you get used to 'em.

Without knowing how you died or why, it's hard to say whether or not you're ready.
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Postby Snake-Aes » Wed Dec 26, 2007 11:00 am

I really just went down fast on anything nastier than the average mob.
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Postby Zeels » Wed Dec 26, 2007 11:04 am

In shattered halls it's understandable. In sv, for the bog lords your healer need to to pretty much constantly throw big heals on you. He/she can't wait until you get dmg he should cast big heals and then cancel if you haven't taken any dmg. A priest/druid should also hot while casting the big heals so you reccieve more net healing.

Was the healer oom? Maybe the dps was too bad then.

Like said above, go with a party with a decent healer and a lot off cc. CC as much as possible and you should do fine.
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Postby kalbear » Wed Dec 26, 2007 11:16 am

Well...your gear is kind of a mess. You've got continuum and timewardens, and that's good, but you're gemming to get socket bonuses instead of for stamina. Still, if you're doing normal you should be able to do things in SV at least.

I don't know how well you'd do in SH, to be honest. The legionaires hit really hard, and with your gear it doesn't look like you're uncrushable or uncrittable. Any healer needs to be really on top of his game.

Really though, it's not about the gear, it's about you and your team. Are you using CC properly? Are you making sure to stun mobs when you can? Are you keeping aggro and are you doing the kill order well? Are you keeping HS up at all times? What blessing are you using? Is your party following the kill order? Are you getting healed reasonably?

For normals, gear is pretty easy. It's the group and the tank that matter.
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Postby Snake-Aes » Wed Dec 26, 2007 11:19 am

kalbear wrote:Well...your gear is kind of a mess. You've got continuum and timewardens, and that's good, but you're gemming to get socket bonuses instead of for stamina. Still, if you're doing normal you should be able to do things in SV at least.

I don't know how well you'd do in SH, to be honest. The legionaires hit really hard, and with your gear it doesn't look like you're uncrushable or uncrittable. Any healer needs to be really on top of his game.

Really though, it's not about the gear, it's about you and your team. Are you using CC properly? Are you making sure to stun mobs when you can? Are you keeping aggro and are you doing the kill order well? Are you keeping HS up at all times? What blessing are you using? Is your party following the kill order? Are you getting healed reasonably?

For normals, gear is pretty easy. It's the group and the tank that matter.
As I stated before, i'm uncrittable when I equip my tanking shield and tanking trinket(493 defense, a bit more hp, 4 to 6% more avoidance - crushes are not an issue in 5-mans). I did went into the socket bonuses, figured it'd work okay because many of those gems give me defense rating, which is good and needed as of now. I can't give up most of them without losing uncritability.
There's an incoming epic yellow gem for +12 defense rating, that should give me more space to work with.


One of the things in gemming that I like to follow is socket bonuses linked to avoidance/defense/stamina. I *can* gem for more than just stamina, and net a better sum of the defensive stats, so why not :p
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Postby kalbear » Wed Dec 26, 2007 11:34 am

One of the things in gemming that I like to follow is socket bonuses linked to avoidance/defense/stamina. I *can* gem for more than just stamina, and net a better sum of the defensive stats, so why not :p
Because you don't need it and you're wasting the gem slots, basically.

Keep in mind that you don't need 490 def for any instance, and you don't need to be uncrushable for normal instances. If you follow that pattern of gemming you will simply have too little HP for doing raids. Your avoidance will be high but you'll be killed unless you have spot-on healers. Don't think of it as gaining extra defensive bonuses; think of every gem slot like this: is giving up 12 stamina here worth X? If X is worth it or is needed, yes. Otherwise, likely not.

Mostly I say your gear is a mess because it's a mismash of a lot of different things, and it's mostly greens. SV and SH are good, but you'll get more upgrades running the TK instances and quest lines. I wouldn't bother concentrating on gems right now; the important thing isn't epic gems, it's getting better gear than the greens you have.

Honestly though, I don't really think it's the gear. I think it's either the party or the tank. I don't know which one it is though, and only you can be sure. To me it sounds like you were either aggroing too many guys at once or not using CC properly. You have plenty decent gear to deal with either instance at normal, and you shouldn't be getting hit that hard unless something is going really wrong or you're taking on like 5 guys at once. There are a couple tough mobs in SV (the bog lords) but it's nothing you shouldn't be able to handle.
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Postby Snake-Aes » Wed Dec 26, 2007 11:45 am

Well I told you I hit 70 very recently =D Still gearing myself.
I'm being careful with overpulls too, 2 melees...3...4 if the healer says he's okay with it... I'll try this run with my favorite pug ever tonight, maybe it'll work.
I already clear the whole BM trash in 3 pulls, that makes me happy inside ^^
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Postby kalbear » Wed Dec 26, 2007 11:57 am

I dunno; there was some gear that I had before 70 that I still have for various bits. The flesh beasts metal greaves you can get from mana tombs on a quest that's not too painful, and that's doable at 65. There's a good blue chest that you get from the quest in ramparts or blood furnace, for instance.

Admittedly having engineering helps a LOT in this respect. The goggles and the rocket launcher both help tons with what you need early on; the goggles alone add about 20 def skill and 2% avoidance along with 100 stam.

What's your kill order in SV?
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Postby Snake-Aes » Wed Dec 26, 2007 12:13 pm

kalbear wrote:I dunno; there was some gear that I had before 70 that I still have for various bits. The flesh beasts metal greaves you can get from mana tombs on a quest that's not too painful, and that's doable at 65. There's a good blue chest that you get from the quest in ramparts or blood furnace, for instance.

Admittedly having engineering helps a LOT in this respect. The goggles and the rocket launcher both help tons with what you need early on; the goggles alone add about 20 def skill and 2% avoidance along with 100 stam.

What's your kill order in SV?
I actually just ditched the blue from ramparts o.O Light-touched breastplate.Working on jade-skull now.
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Postby Venatirsia » Wed Dec 26, 2007 2:14 pm

I hit 70 less than two weeks ago. I had been pvping myself to death to get the gladiator's shield wall, which merry winter's veil to me, i got yesterday morning - until that time I had the shield of the wayward footman like you have. I'm wearing the felsteel gloves and pants, and have not even gotten the rep I need for KoT yet for the pants and helm enchant. The damage enchants you want will help you with threat but for going down fast, not sure what the problem was. I tanked SH & SV before I hit 70 and it went well. I was using the myrmidon's headdress until I made my tankatronics a few days ago, and had gone into quite a few 70 instances before that. I'd definitely take the advice on gearing for stamina - I don't even look at socket bonuses now, was what I was taught from two incredible paladin tanks I know and it has worked well thus far. You should get all the defense you need from new upgrades, good trinkets, etc., that you'll get in 70 runs and shouldn't even feel the urge to gem for defense as long as you are going after the right items. You only need 485 to tank a heroic.

Try using the same people to do some runs with, swap out the healer, etc., see under what circumstances you're having the issues. Doing little experiments to test if its you, a healer, the type of mobs, the number of pulls, etc., could tell you everything you need to know. :wink:
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