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Are tanks pointless?

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Re: Are tanks pointless?

Postby Koatanga » Wed Aug 24, 2011 12:20 am

MUD career:

Glass Dragon
Jolly Roger
Haunted Pass
Isle of Death
Pirate's Cove (ran that one)
DragonRealms

Spent a good chunk of time chasing text.
Retired. Koatanga, Shapely, Sultry, Doominatrix of Greenstone - Dath'Remar
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Re: Are tanks pointless?

Postby yappo » Wed Aug 24, 2011 1:56 am

Koatanga wrote:MUD career:

Glass Dragon
Jolly Roger
Haunted Pass
Isle of Death
Pirate's Cove (ran that one)
DragonRealms

Spent a good chunk of time chasing text.


Only have four MUD:s under my belt. The one I ran is still up and running for twenty years straight.
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Re: Are tanks pointless?

Postby Skye1013 » Wed Aug 24, 2011 2:56 am

Sabindeus wrote:
Shamora wrote:
Malthrax wrote:Also, although every prior legendary has been a weapon, there's nothing saying a tanking legendary HAS to be a weapon...


Talisman of Binding Shard


... was never in game.

I'll just leave this here...
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Re: Are tanks pointless?

Postby Bladesong » Wed Aug 24, 2011 11:44 am

*whispers*Because they fooked up the RDF system so there is next to zero behavior accountability*whisper*


Well this goes to what I think is the root of the problem - the design decision to throw people with wildly different goals into a random group. To me the biggest issue is that your group will often consist of raiders, who have better than average gear and skill and are there just to kill the last boss as fast as possible for Valor, and people who are still learning about their class who are there to improve their starter gear with drops. I can see an altruistic intent to have veterans helping new players, but uh... yeah.
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Re: Are tanks pointless?

Postby halabar » Wed Aug 24, 2011 11:56 am

Flex wrote:Man, people really want threat to matter. I honestly don't care which aspect they ever decide to promote. Threat or Survival, makes no difference to me, as long as both aren't pushed equally because you just end up in a "wait for sunders" situation that I doubt many people would find fun to go back to.


Threat should matter...

What is more compelling:

1) A tank staring down the enemy(s), daring them to attack him, roaring in the face of the enemy, and holding their attention while his teammates do their jobs.

or

2) A tank hiding behind his shield that has a big bullseye on it, so the overgrown boss and his minions throw everything they have at that bullseye, and the tank is busy using every incantation he can to soften the blows.


The more they go to #2, the less I ever want to try tanking again, its just not compelling. I learned to tank in Shattered Halls, where you had to grab and hold all those Orcs. Pallys were quite good at that.

Now Blizz wants me to cower behind shields, madly trying to survive.

No thanks.
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Re: Are tanks pointless?

Postby Flex » Wed Aug 24, 2011 12:31 pm

halabar wrote:Threat should matter...

What is more compelling:

1) A tank staring down the enemy(s), daring them to attack him, roaring in the face of the enemy, and holding their attention while his teammates do their jobs.

or

2) A tank hiding behind his shield that has a big bullseye on it, so the overgrown boss and his minions throw everything they have at that bullseye, and the tank is busy using every incantation he can to soften the blows.


#1 is just being a DPS with a "shield".
#2 would be a new play style unique to tanking.

Blizzard just needs to pick a style and flesh it out.
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Re: Are tanks pointless?

Postby Malthrax » Wed Aug 24, 2011 12:33 pm

Tanks may be pointless, but tanking SHOULDERS are frequently very pointy.
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Re: Are tanks pointless?

Postby Astronomic » Wed Aug 24, 2011 12:53 pm

Malthrax wrote:Tanks may be pointless, but tanking SHOULDERS are frequently very pointy.


pally t7(3) instantly popped in my mind.
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Re: Are tanks pointless?

Postby benebarba » Wed Aug 24, 2011 12:54 pm

Malthrax wrote:Tanks may be pointless, but tanking SHOULDERS are frequently very pointy.


I would give you an internets, but I used it :(


;)
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Re: Are tanks pointless?

Postby Sagara » Wed Aug 24, 2011 1:14 pm

halabar wrote:
Flex wrote:Man, people really want threat to matter. I honestly don't care which aspect they ever decide to promote. Threat or Survival, makes no difference to me, as long as both aren't pushed equally because you just end up in a "wait for sunders" situation that I doubt many people would find fun to go back to.


Threat should matter...

What is more compelling:

1) A tank staring down the enemy(s), daring them to attack him, roaring in the face of the enemy, and holding their attention while his teammates do their jobs.

or

2) A tank hiding behind his shield that has a big bullseye on it, so the overgrown boss and his minions throw everything they have at that bullseye, and the tank is busy using every incantation he can to soften the blows.


The more they go to #2, the less I ever want to try tanking again, its just not compelling. I learned to tank in Shattered Halls, where you had to grab and hold all those Orcs. Pallys were quite good at that.

Now Blizz wants me to cower behind shields, madly trying to survive.

No thanks.



I'm also voting n°2. We're the going that keep on going - bruised, battered, torn flesh and mind? We spit some blood, pick the blade back up and charge right back in, front line, shield high! NOTHING will take us down!
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Re: Are tanks pointless?

Postby yappo » Wed Aug 24, 2011 1:23 pm

Sagara wrote: We're the going that keep on going - bruised, battered, torn flesh and mind? We spit some blood, pick the blade back up and charge right back in, front line, shield high! NOTHING will take us down!


... barring the lack of a healer...
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Re: Are tanks pointless?

Postby Thrornir » Wed Aug 24, 2011 2:13 pm

That's what Lay on Hands is for. (The first time.)
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Re: Are tanks pointless?

Postby RedAces » Wed Aug 24, 2011 2:15 pm

So when I'm injured in battle I touch myself and everything is back to normal? errrrrm
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Re: Are tanks pointless?

Postby bldavis » Wed Aug 24, 2011 2:17 pm

o.O
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Brekkie:Tanks are like shitty DPS. And healers are like REALLY distracted DPS
Amirya:Why yes, your penis is longer than his because you hit 30k dps in the first 10 seconds. But guess what? That raid boss has a dick bigger than your ego.
Flex:I don't make mistakes. I execute carefully planned strategic group wipes.
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Re: Are tanks pointless?

Postby thegreatheed » Wed Aug 24, 2011 2:30 pm

halabar wrote:
Flex wrote:Man, people really want threat to matter. I honestly don't care which aspect they ever decide to promote. Threat or Survival, makes no difference to me, as long as both aren't pushed equally because you just end up in a "wait for sunders" situation that I doubt many people would find fun to go back to.


Threat should matter...

What is more compelling:

1) A tank staring down the enemy(s), daring them to attack him, roaring in the face of the enemy, and holding their attention while his teammates do their jobs.

or

2) A tank hiding behind his shield that has a big bullseye on it, so the overgrown boss and his minions throw everything they have at that bullseye, and the tank is busy using every incantation he can to soften the blows.


The more they go to #2, the less I ever want to try tanking again, its just not compelling. I learned to tank in Shattered Halls, where you had to grab and hold all those Orcs. Pallys were quite good at that.

Now Blizz wants me to cower behind shields, madly trying to survive.

No thanks.


#2 is only compelling because bosses hit so hard. Bosses hit so hard to make damage reduction talents useful. I don't know about you, but whenever I play a new RPG, and get to place my first talent point, and my choices are 'decreases damage taken by 1%' and 'increases all damage done by 1%' no matter what role of character I've rolled, I always want to choose the increased damage.

I would love a tanking model based off #1. Just make spec have the requisite damage reduction, make controlling the fight the important role of the tank, not an automatic byproduct.
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