Enchantment Yes, or Enchantment No?

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Re: Enchantment Yes, or Enchantment No?

Postby Volitaire » Wed Aug 24, 2011 10:41 am

I am currently working on leveling my enchanter as I have heard through the many visits to the AH thread that there is alot of gold to be made there. But I honestly love the Auto-DE functionality as it allows me to provide resources to my enchanter by running dungeons on an Alt. I didn't start playing until Cata so I am not familiar with the way it worked before but I really very much look forward to runs where there is an Enchanter in the group on my runs.
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Re: Enchantment Yes, or Enchantment No?

Postby fuzzygeek » Wed Aug 24, 2011 10:42 am

Mukat wrote:Blue suggested it when RDF started and enchanters started bitching about being forced to help people they didn't know.


This is amazing.
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Re: Enchantment Yes, or Enchantment No?

Postby Mukat » Wed Aug 24, 2011 10:45 am

fuzzygeek wrote:
Mukat wrote:Blue suggested it when RDF started and enchanters started bitching about being forced to help people they didn't know.


This is amazing.

What? That people bitch about providing services to others without receiving a direct benefit, or that I'm bitching about the bitching?
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Re: Enchantment Yes, or Enchantment No?

Postby cerwillis » Wed Aug 24, 2011 10:52 am

Regarding skinning: I do a bear run every time I'm in ZA. I have the mount and the achieve, but I still tank like I'm going for it. If the groups fail the timer, I'm not the reason. If we are pulling lynxes and the timer is <3 minutes, or expired, people can wait while I get 3+ Savage leather per corpse. If the timer is in good shape, I'll pass it up of course, and I would never ask someone to loot. Plus worgens skin fast.
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Re: Enchantment Yes, or Enchantment No?

Postby fuzzygeek » Wed Aug 24, 2011 11:31 am

Mukat wrote:
fuzzygeek wrote:
Mukat wrote:Blue suggested it when RDF started and enchanters started bitching about being forced to help people they didn't know.


This is amazing.

What? That people bitch about providing services to others without receiving a direct benefit, or that I'm bitching about the bitching?


The fact that it works, and gives people who don't want to provide free disenchants an out -- at a convenience cost to themselves.
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Re: Enchantment Yes, or Enchantment No?

Postby lythac » Wed Aug 24, 2011 12:19 pm

fuzzygeek wrote:The fact that it works, and gives people who don't want to provide free disenchants an out -- at a convenience cost to themselves.


I suppose if they have bountiful bags their convenience cost is outweighed by their the monetary gain.

Also, without a disenchanter being present I have seen players pass on blues rather than greed so it also grants a higher chance of winning an item.
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Re: Enchantment Yes, or Enchantment No?

Postby referee » Wed Aug 24, 2011 12:54 pm

Oh, there is a solution, nice. Some people got my concerns, but in any debate, they're going to be conflicting views, and I'm glad this has been conducted in a peaceful manner, without escalating out of control.

The main issue (but lythac just mentioned the cases where the other player would have passed instead of DE, which is a cost), was not being allowed to control who I helped. Everyone except those that have big enough guilds have had random groups soured by nasty my-way-or-the-highway players, the "gogogogogogo" DPS that says "Go faster, I have to leave in five minutes" (why did he join, then?), or people that is just unpleasant to be with, sadly.

And I was thinking I would have to help them by giving them free materials (that yes, he can easily get somewhere else, but then I saved him the hassle, which is more than they deserve). Now I know what I will do. :)
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Re: Enchantment Yes, or Enchantment No?

Postby Koatanga » Wed Aug 24, 2011 1:22 pm

I am an enchanter and scribe.

Number of regular Heroic runs: 75
Number of Troll Heroic runs: 41
Number of Chaos Orbs dropped: 116

My financial share of all chaos orbs dropped: 0g

By rights, I should have 23 orb-credits (116/5) to use for when I need something made. Instead, I pay the going rate for orbs whenever I need anything crafted.

Remind me again why I should be happy about providing my services free of charge?

Disenchanting is the mainstay of my gold intake. By providing free disenchanting services for everyone in the run, I choke the supply of greens that I could be buying to disenchant, I create competition in my materials market, and I increase the supply of some materials in my marketplace (namely shards and crystals) which lowers their unit cost.
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Re: Enchantment Yes, or Enchantment No?

Postby Cogglamp » Wed Aug 24, 2011 1:36 pm

So everyone one of your runs have been with players on your realm? You can't really include those dusts/essences that went off to another realm.

Besides, price elasticity my friend. As theckhd alluded to, you're going to end up moving goods more quickly with the lower price point of materials. It's not as if people would have been stupid enough to post greens at 3g when dusts are going for 10g so the argument that the greens that would have been yours is a silly one.

Maybe my realm is out of whack but my margins on a % basis aren't shrinking and in many cases, they're getting bigger.

I'd much prefer sales velocity over large items that are taking up a significant amount of my capital, especially when you're providing a ubiquitous commodity which nearly everything in WoW is save for vanity items and epics.
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Re: Enchantment Yes, or Enchantment No?

Postby Cogglamp » Wed Aug 24, 2011 1:37 pm

fuzzygeek wrote:
Cogglamp wrote:If anyone is struggling with enchanting, come on over to the AH thread and we'll help you out.


Cogg wins the Good Guy Greg award for the day.


Haha. Gold star and cookie please.

You'd be surprised at how many tips us robber barons are willing to provide in that thread if you ask nicely and have an idea on what you want to accomplish.
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Re: Enchantment Yes, or Enchantment No?

Postby Passionario » Wed Aug 24, 2011 2:05 pm

If you wanted a profession that provides virtually zero benefits for players who don't have it themselves, you should have picked Engineering.
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Re: Enchantment Yes, or Enchantment No?

Postby thegreatheed » Wed Aug 24, 2011 2:08 pm

Flex wrote:
Angelus wrote:I find it really hard to believe the change was made to benefit enchanters. If an enchanter didn't want to take time to DE, they'd simply not mention being an enchanter and let the Greed rolls fall to whomever they may.

I personally used to love it though, if I was rolling with a crummy pug, I'd just keep quiet and wait for the run to be over. If I was actually run with fun people, I'd offer to DE to help them out.

Since the change though, I don't enchant for anyone but guildies. It made sense before to respond to someone in Trade looking for enchants. Chances are they either had an enchanter alt they got the mats from(and all enchanters know the pain of trying to get enchants on an alt because your very own enchanter can't do it), or they had bought those mats from other enchanters on the AH; possibly from one of my very own auctions.

But now...no, I won't enchant your item using mats you acquired for free through someone else's profession for a tip of less gold than I'd get by doing a daily. Buy my enchant scroll on the AH and enjoy the markup.


This is a good example of why my feeling is "get over yourself".
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Re: Enchantment Yes, or Enchantment No?

Postby Cogglamp » Wed Aug 24, 2011 2:09 pm

But... but... companion pets and the ability to laugh at said person when their perks fail!
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Re: Enchantment Yes, or Enchantment No?

Postby Koatanga » Wed Aug 24, 2011 4:47 pm

Passionario wrote:If you wanted a profession that provides virtually zero benefits for players who don't have it themselves, you should have picked Engineering.

Mailboxes and Jeeves? Kinda handy.
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Re: Enchantment Yes, or Enchantment No?

Postby Koatanga » Wed Aug 24, 2011 5:04 pm

Cogglamp wrote:Besides, price elasticity my friend. As theckhd alluded to, you're going to end up moving goods more quickly with the lower price point of materials. It's not as if people would have been stupid enough to post greens at 3g when dusts are going for 10g so the argument that the greens that would have been yours is a silly one.

I disagree. Enchants are pretty much mandatory, so demand will be similar at increased price points for materials, within reason.

With regard to greens, again I disagree. People who are going to AH their green instead of DEing them or vendoring them
generally fall into two camps: "Ooh this has hot stats, I'll sell it for heaps", or "Of the whale? Ew. I'll sell it cheap and see if some sucker will buy it.". They generally don't do the maths on the disenchant value.

Example: Carnelian spikes. I have bought as low as 35g and normally around 60-65g. The DE value is 112g.

Just did a search on AH for weapons of iLvl 305 or higher. There were 10 items selling for under their DE value, 7 of which were less than 2/3 of their DE value.

So yeah, people are stupid enough to list greens below their DE value, and in fact they do it all the time. Making DE less available would mean equate to even more undervalued greens available.
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