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Enchantment Yes, or Enchantment No?

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Enchantment Yes, or Enchantment No?

Postby referee » Tue Aug 23, 2011 9:02 pm

Hi there. I'd like to know what people thinks about the Enchantment profession working on the dungeons?

My gripes: Why would the fact that I am an enchanter let everyone else in the dungeon use this profession for free? If someone mines and ore or skins a beast, I cannot roll for those items. And why would I? It's his profession, after all. But an Enchanter will find out he's being forced to give Enchantment materials to other people, likely people he won't see again, because they got picked from a different server.

And the main argument of the people that vyes for Status Quo, seems to be: "It doesn't change a thing, he won the item, would have given it to an alt or a guildmate to disenchant", but really, I'm not buying. Let him roll for Greed, and if he wins the roll, it's his item, fair and square. He can give it to someone to disenchant, sell at vendor, or delete it for all I care. But let me decide how I want to use my profession. In fact, it changes a thing. It's subtle, but it's there. People that might have passed an item, is now picking Disenchant, and it becomes another competitor on the roll.

If they win the item (with Greed, because on my ideal world there'd be no Disenchant button), and he asks nicely, and he's been doing a good job, I might disenchant the item for him afterwards. But don't force the decision on me, that's all I ask.

So what do you think? A solution would be leaving the disenchant button out, or at least let me pick somewhere in the options whether I want people to use my profession for free. I have no Disenchanter yet, but this point keeps me from wanting one, or make him avoid dungeons at all when I make one. I know it seems radical, but I can't understand the rationale under the Disenchant button. Let's see if I get a bit more light on the issue.
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Re: Enchantment Yes, or Enchantment No?

Postby bldavis » Tue Aug 23, 2011 9:37 pm

i like the auto DE button, but i have always thought that it should only apply to those with enchanting
if you dont have mining/skinning/herbalism you cant gather mats form those prof's in dungeons...why make it so everyone can gather DE mats?
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Re: Enchantment Yes, or Enchantment No?

Postby Flex » Tue Aug 23, 2011 10:05 pm

As an enchanter my feeling on dungeon enchanting option is as follows: Get over yourself.
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Re: Enchantment Yes, or Enchantment No?

Postby fuzzygeek » Tue Aug 23, 2011 10:12 pm

Flex wrote:As an enchanter my feeling on dungeon enchanting option is as follows: Get over yourself.


Pretty much this.

If it makes you feel better, don't think of it as you're being forced to DE something. Think of it as your presence is so awesome that magical shit just falls to pieces by being in your august presence.
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Re: Enchantment Yes, or Enchantment No?

Postby Teranoid » Tue Aug 23, 2011 11:15 pm

I think the solution is that if it bothers you THAT much that you should probably get a new profession.
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Re: Enchantment Yes, or Enchantment No?

Postby PsiVen » Tue Aug 23, 2011 11:44 pm

The astonishing amount of entitlement people feel for happening to have picked a profession which is universally helpful never ceases to amaze me.

It's like discovering your farts smell like daisies, and then balking that you can't charge admission for people to sniff at them while you walk past on the sidewalk.
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Re: Enchantment Yes, or Enchantment No?

Postby Amirya » Wed Aug 24, 2011 12:27 am

PsiVen wrote:The astonishing amount of entitlement people feel for happening to have picked a profession which is universally helpful never ceases to amaze me.

It's like discovering your farts smell like daisies, and then balking that you can't charge admission for people to sniff at them while you walk past on the sidewalk.

...there are no words to describe the image this creates. Like Mylune trailing after you...

On topic, as someone who has two enchanters...I don't particularly care. Pre-DE option, I never announced/admitted in a random dungeon that I could DE, because I just did not want to be bothered with that shit during/after a run. Yes, I was the enchanter who said nothing when you asked, "is there an enchanter in group?"

The only thing that annoys me about the whole auto-de stuff is that it announces who did the disenchant. I fail to see the value in that information spam.

It's akin to, "I leveled cooking to make feasts, why should others in my party get to partake?"
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Re: Enchantment Yes, or Enchantment No?

Postby Koatanga » Wed Aug 24, 2011 12:44 am

The sentiment is not without basis, regardless of those calling "entitlement". Nobody shares their skins, ore, or chaos orbs. No extra cloth drops for non-tailors.

Enchanting is the only profession that automatically shares any benefits with the party in a group.

I would love to see the enchanter get random-proc "tips" of one of the dust/essences if someone in their party DEs a drop. It would be akin to tailors finding extra cloth, IMO.

As far as the implementation of it goes, it's lame. There really needs to be an extra button for off-spec rolls.
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Re: Enchantment Yes, or Enchantment No?

Postby Skye1013 » Wed Aug 24, 2011 1:11 am

While I appreciate the fact that I don't see as many people "looking for disenchanter" which cuts a little into my profits... the other side is that enchanting mats are more widely available (ie. cheaper) which increases the profit margins on the sales I do make (and generally entails bigger tips because people already have the mats!) Really my only gripe is that I tend to forget to hit greed instead of DE (because I still need the Greedy ach :D)
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Re: Enchantment Yes, or Enchantment No?

Postby Skye1013 » Wed Aug 24, 2011 1:14 am

Amirya wrote:The only thing that annoys me about the whole auto-de stuff is that it announces who did the disenchant. I fail to see the value in that information spam.

I like it, cause then I know if it counts towards our guild achievement or someone else is getting credit... beyond that I really couldn't care.
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Re: Enchantment Yes, or Enchantment No?

Postby fuzzygeek » Wed Aug 24, 2011 1:15 am

Agree with the need for off-spec rolls.

You could argue that with all the other gathering/random perks, other people benefit only marginally -- it doesn't matter how much cloth a tailor gets -- it will never benefit my tank. Pretty much likewise for skinner, with the exception of leg armor.

On the other hand, everyone uses more than a dozen enchants on their gear.

I don't think highly of forced labor, but it's not like this is a big deal. Frankly they should just make the DE button part of the default UI regardless of whether or not there is an enchanter in the party.

Edit: you know what I really hate? People who expect the entire party to stop moving and wait on them while they skin shit. Or want us to come back from 5 pulls further down the hall to loot something so they can skin it, and refuse to move from the corpse until it is looted so he can skin it.

I don't often stop pulling long enough to kick someone, but this is definitely a case when I'll make an exception, if the person is being remarkably rude and demanding.
Last edited by fuzzygeek on Wed Aug 24, 2011 1:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Enchantment Yes, or Enchantment No?

Postby Skye1013 » Wed Aug 24, 2011 1:17 am

fuzzygeek wrote:You could argue that with all the other gathering/random perks, other people benefit only marginally -- it doesn't matter how much cloth a tailor gets -- it will never benefit my tank. Pretty much likewise for skinner, with the exception of leg armor.

/devil's advocate

You never buy new bags? You still running with Traveller's Backpacks and the 2-3 you can get from raids (Dragon's Hide, the ZA one, etc.)?
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Re: Enchantment Yes, or Enchantment No?

Postby KysenMurrin » Wed Aug 24, 2011 1:20 am

The issue is that these items go to a free roll regardless of whether anyone wants them or not, and when the only option was to roll to vendor, it became common practice to go to the effort of passing BoP items to an enchanter and distributing the mats. If Blizzard restricted the option again, people would just go back to that practice. The change was to make things more convenient for enchanters who were always asked to do this.

The option as it applies to BoEs is irrelevant - there's no complaint to be made, the items are freely available for anyone to roll on and have DEd by another character, this just makes it easier, and the parallel to mining/skinning/herbalism does not apply when the item is freely tradeable - it's not as if people can collect a mining node and pass it to a miner to extract the contents for them.
Last edited by KysenMurrin on Wed Aug 24, 2011 1:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Enchantment Yes, or Enchantment No?

Postby fuzzygeek » Wed Aug 24, 2011 1:22 am

Portable Holes. http://www.wowhead.com/item=51809 :D

To be fair, I did buy a set of large sacks the other day because ... well, hell, I don't know why. These bags would be available regardless of whether or not tailors got extra cloth or not. They just might be marginally more expensive.
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Re: Enchantment Yes, or Enchantment No?

Postby Skye1013 » Wed Aug 24, 2011 1:35 am

Honestly, the Dreamcloth cooldowns are the only thing that keeps them expensive at the moment. 8 Dreamcloth for Illusionary bags (I value each Dreamcloth ~500g for AH purposes) would put the sell price at 4k. That's also 500g per leg enchant, 4k base for FL patterns (which skyrockets beyond that thanks to the need for Living Embers...)

Back to the DE thing... and cloth gathering for that matter... you don't have to actively go out of your way to gather the mats (for the most part.) For Herbing/Mining, you (mostly) have to seek out the mats you want. Enchanting/Tailoring, you collect those mats during your weekly VP runs/raids, with no extra time sink involved.
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