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[25 HM] Baleroc

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Re: [25 HM] Baleroc

Postby Kihra » Sat Aug 13, 2011 6:25 pm

Kerriodos wrote:I was under the impression that Damage Reduction CD's don't work on Decimating Strikes, as it is 90% or 250k (whichever is more). Trying to Shield Wall, for example, does nothing for our Decimation tank. Absorbs work, however, so I'm wondering if that's accounting for the DR you're seeing? Though considering Sac transfers the damage instead of simply reducing it, I could see how that could work. Or I could just be in the wrong entirely?


Yes, you're right that absorbs work and DR effects don't. Both Ardent Defender and Hand of Sacrifice are implemented as absorb effects. I have no idea why AD is implemented as an absorb when other tank CDs are not, but the end result is that it does in fact work on Decimatings.
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Re: [25 HM] Baleroc

Postby Kihra » Sat Aug 13, 2011 6:33 pm

anafielle wrote:I will definitely sac our deci tank next time we see this.


I don't recommend using a sac early on, e.g., if the very first blade is Decimating, since your health pool won't be that large, and you really don't want to waste bubble. (Lay on Hands is too good not to hold in reserve on this fight.)

Also, if you're using the tactic of letting the Inferno tank take the first Decimating hit, your OT has to really be on the ball, since sometimes you won't be above 90% at the time the Decimating goes out. If that's the case the OT needs to taunt immediately and shouldn't wait for the MT to take a hit. Make sure your healers aren't confused by the MT health dipping low. They need to be concentrating on the OT, since the MT can just HoT back up slowly during the rest of the Decimating time period.

Usually about half the time my OT is forced to taunt off me immediately, since I'm not above 90%. Those are the cases where I just use Hand of Sacrifice on him. So basically we tend to do either "I eat the first hit" or "I hand of sac" but typically not both in the same blade.
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Re: [25 HM] Baleroc

Postby Kerriodos » Sat Aug 13, 2011 7:08 pm

Kihra wrote:
Kerriodos wrote:I was under the impression that Damage Reduction CD's don't work on Decimating Strikes, as it is 90% or 250k (whichever is more). Trying to Shield Wall, for example, does nothing for our Decimation tank. Absorbs work, however, so I'm wondering if that's accounting for the DR you're seeing? Though considering Sac transfers the damage instead of simply reducing it, I could see how that could work. Or I could just be in the wrong entirely?


Yes, you're right that absorbs work and DR effects don't. Both Ardent Defender and Hand of Sacrifice are implemented as absorb effects. I have no idea why AD is implemented as an absorb when other tank CDs are not, but the end result is that it does in fact work on Decimatings.


I realized that was the case with AD (which is awesome) but I'd never noticed it being the case with HoS. That's great, thanks. I love that I'm always learning new things here ahah
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Re: [25 HM] Baleroc

Postby Galiks » Tue Aug 16, 2011 10:16 pm

Any tips here regarding positioning and handling of crystals outside of the standard 2 tank/5 healer/spriest soaking? Mainly looking for positioning to optimize DPS and crystal handling. Thanks.
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Re: [25 HM] Baleroc

Postby Belloc » Wed Aug 17, 2011 7:30 am

Galiks wrote:Any tips here regarding positioning and handling of crystals outside of the standard 2 tank/5 healer/spriest soaking? Mainly looking for positioning to optimize DPS and crystal handling. Thanks.

Don't help this guy! He's my competition!

JK, good luck Galiks :)
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Re: [25 HM] Baleroc

Postby Galiks » Wed Aug 17, 2011 11:48 am

Belloc wrote:
Galiks wrote:Any tips here regarding positioning and handling of crystals outside of the standard 2 tank/5 healer/spriest soaking? Mainly looking for positioning to optimize DPS and crystal handling. Thanks.

Don't help this guy! He's my competition!

JK, good luck Galiks :)


I didn't even notice you were on my server... how long have you been on Azgalor? I've been here since 60 on my druid (Galice).

Hopefully we'll kill Baleroc tonight, but its a lot more of a clusterf#%k on 25s with crystal rotations due to having to navigate around so many more people and the possibility of crystals spawning on a ranged member on the opposite side of the people who are assigned to soak it. :\ That's why I'm asking for any creative positioning assignments! We'll get it though, 50% after a few tries right around the 3 min marker, thank god for the 10% nerf.
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Re: [25 HM] Baleroc

Postby Belloc » Wed Aug 17, 2011 3:30 pm

Azgalor was my first server (near the end of Classic) with my Warlock. I transferred off shortly after my guild started falling apart in ICC (Humility). I transferred back the... second or third week of Firelands.

And, yeah, countdown + crystals sounds like a bitch on 25. I hope you get it soon... preferably after we get Beth ;P
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Re: [25 HM] Baleroc

Postby madmessias » Thu Aug 18, 2011 2:37 pm

Right now we are changing healers after every shard, we're using 5x healers with 3starting on people taking shards, and two tanks. Is this the way to go?
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Re: [25 HM] Baleroc

Postby Kihra » Fri Aug 19, 2011 10:43 am

madmessias wrote:Right now we are changing healers after every shard, we're using 5x healers with 3starting on people taking shards, and two tanks. Is this the way to go?


We found that frequent swaps just created danger and that they weren't strictly necessary. We started with 2 healers on tanks and 2 healers on shards. The fifth healer was kind of a floater, but he focused initially on tanks.

After 2 shards, the 2 shard healers take over on tanks, and they're boosted enough to heal the tanks for nearly the whole rest of the fight. We do one more swap towards the end of the fight.

The fifth floating healer would fill in for any healer that got Tormented, i.e., basically moving to where he was most needed.

I think there are lots of ways to do this fight, though, so do what works for you. We found that frequent swapping just created more opportunities for the healers to get confused regarding their assignments and more opportunities for people to fall over dead as a result. Once we saw that swapping that often wasn't necessary, the fight got a lot simpler for us.
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Re: [25 HM] Baleroc

Postby madmessias » Sat Aug 20, 2011 9:13 pm

Kihra wrote:
madmessias wrote:Right now we are changing healers after every shard, we're using 5x healers with 3starting on people taking shards, and two tanks. Is this the way to go?


We found that frequent swaps just created danger and that they weren't strictly necessary. We started with 2 healers on tanks and 2 healers on shards. The fifth healer was kind of a floater, but he focused initially on tanks.

After 2 shards, the 2 shard healers take over on tanks, and they're boosted enough to heal the tanks for nearly the whole rest of the fight. We do one more swap towards the end of the fight.

The fifth floating healer would fill in for any healer that got Tormented, i.e., basically moving to where he was most needed.

I think there are lots of ways to do this fight, though, so do what works for you. We found that frequent swapping just created more opportunities for the healers to get confused regarding their assignments and more opportunities for people to fall over dead as a result. Once we saw that swapping that often wasn't necessary, the fight got a lot simpler for us.

So how do they heal in the start? Spam their cheap heals so they can use their effecient heals healing the tank, and during decimation blade.. using what heals?

edit: And if anyone got some other tips on how you assign healers in 25m, please tell =)
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Re: [25 HM] Baleroc

Postby Meloree » Sat Aug 20, 2011 11:27 pm

We ended up going with 6 healers, 1 tank. We have 3 Shadow Priests soaking shards at ranged, and they solosoak every one. Two pairs of tank-healers swap every shard, and stack up their stacks of Shadow Priests - they get around 60 stacks per shard, give or take. One healer heals the melee shards with a normal 2 person split. The other healer was just a FFA healer who took over for anyone who got Tormented, and any healer with Tormented just sat on the tanks.

That strat was largely built on our healing roster balance, though - no paladins, 2 druids, 2 discs, 1 shaman, 1 holy priest. Decimation Blades weren't a problem to solotank with a GS and an AD to crutch us through them, so there wasn't a real need for a second tank. Healing got easier through the fight, due to mega-stacks on healers outpacing tank stacks. I have a sneaking suspicion that a paladin or two would have had us doing the much more traditional 2 tank 5 healer setup.

The real advantage was having a lot less tormented players in the raid, due to solo-soaking all the ranged shards, so there was less torment-spread from Countdown.

As far as how the healers heal: the pair of healers stacking on a shadow-priest tends to spam flash heal equivalents in order to really crank up their stacks, at least for the first couple of rotations.

During Decimation Blade, if you're solotanking, they're going to need to plan to use some tricks. Our resto druids would swiftmend after the first hit, NS after the 2nd, and our Discs would be bubbling as often as possible. Again, though, AD was hax, used reactively (ie: it's been 1.5s, and I'm not at 90%, use AD, live), and so was GS.
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Re: [25 HM] Baleroc

Postby gomashon » Sun Aug 21, 2011 3:18 pm

I highly recommend 5 heal 2 tank, decimation blades turn into the "oh good now i can relax on tank healing part" since your OT has little hp and your heals are huge. The MT also takes (a bit) less damage since some of the debuffs go on your OT, and the inferno blades are easy to deal with cooldowns/ fire resistance.
The second tank also does more dps than a healer would, and can soak crystals. for example he can solo soak the first crystal that spawns all by himself. He does not need his cooldowns for tanking, so can use it for soaking. This tank can also possibly assist with soaking later, in emergency situations.
With 1 tank, the decimation blades (especially those near the end of the fight) become a much bigger risk, especially if not all your healers built up their stacks properly or got tormented. With 2 tanks, the more time passes, the easier it gets to heal the decimation blades.
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Re: [25 HM] Baleroc

Postby PsiVen » Wed Aug 24, 2011 6:30 pm

Kihra wrote:
Kerriodos wrote:I was under the impression that Damage Reduction CD's don't work on Decimating Strikes, as it is 90% or 250k (whichever is more). Trying to Shield Wall, for example, does nothing for our Decimation tank. Absorbs work, however, so I'm wondering if that's accounting for the DR you're seeing? Though considering Sac transfers the damage instead of simply reducing it, I could see how that could work. Or I could just be in the wrong entirely?


Yes, you're right that absorbs work and DR effects don't. Both Ardent Defender and Hand of Sacrifice are implemented as absorb effects. I have no idea why AD is implemented as an absorb when other tank CDs are not, but the end result is that it does in fact work on Decimatings.


Good catch, I never noticed that before.
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Re: [25 HM] Baleroc

Postby culhag » Fri Aug 26, 2011 3:29 am

I there.
We've started working working seriously on this. Right now our biggest problem is the debuff being spread in the raid, but the other day I got one shot by a 2.1M Inferno blade (with glyphed DP active) when I had around 500k health. I can't figure out how this happened.

[22:06:52.860] Baleroc Inferno Strike Culhag 545789 (O: 720334, A: 106027, B: 616474, R: 153443)

That was his first strike after he cast Inferno blades, and the previous two melee were parried, so I'm pretty sure I was at full health.

Here's the full log: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/3alr ... 313&e=5471
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Re: [25 HM] Baleroc

Postby Treck » Fri Aug 26, 2011 4:00 am

A quick look at your logs (even tho their in french i think), seems you had Tormented when it struck, aka 500% more magic damage taken.
The decimation tank can tank effectivly with Tormented, but the inferno tank cannot.
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