Transmogrification and stuff!

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Re: Void Storage and Transmogrifier's

Postby Hrobertgar » Fri Aug 12, 2011 8:25 am

He said in PVP especially, not just in PVP. It's also important for your priest to be able to pick out the tank or hunter or mage by their appearance in a sea of characters on your screen.


I think most healers use a mod or raid frames or something rather than actually trying to click on character models.

I think destruction of the source is ok, as long as you can then use that modified object to re-transfer the item model to a new upgrade without re-farming the source model. Obviously this would still tend to limit the number of people modifying Legendary items due to the cost and expense but you might get some people doing it. If you have to have the original source item for the model transfer then I think some sort of re-forging or reagent cost is better to limit how many times people need to farm desireable items.

And I still think some of the models from AQ40 would get a lot of play if you could Transmogrify item models this way.
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Re: Void Storage and Transmogrifier's

Postby halabar » Fri Aug 12, 2011 8:27 am

Assuming it is gear-changing, this may very well be a response to the drop-off in accounts. What better way to keep people playing that let them change gear AND farm endlessly for the right look?...
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Re: Void Storage and Transmogrifier's

Postby Sabindeus » Fri Aug 12, 2011 8:53 am

Saying "they just stare at Grid' is not a valid reason to change Blizzard's stand on the matter.

And I agree with this too, when healing 5 mans I often look away from my bars to see where people are standing and rely on general model shape to associate the person I'm looking at in the world frame with the corresponding box in X-Perl.
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Re: Void Storage and Transmogrifier's

Postby Shoju » Fri Aug 12, 2011 9:04 am

Sabindeus wrote:
halabar wrote:
KysenMurrin wrote:Another issue with the idea of cosmetic changes to gear: Recognisability.

They're comitted to having recognisable silhouettes for races. Another part of that is having classes recognisable by their gear sets. In PvP especially, it's often pretty easy to recognise a character's class from the way they look. Being able to tell the gear level matters, too - there are noticable differences in appearance between players at varying gear levels in both PvP and PvE.

Does Blizzard want people to have the ability to totally hide themselves inside armor that looks nothing like what they're actually wearing?


So it only works on PVE gear?.. simple solution.


He said in PVP especially, not just in PVP. It's also important for your priest to be able to pick out the tank or hunter or mage by their appearance in a sea of characters on your screen.



So, how do you tell the arms warrior from blood dk on your screen?
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Re: Void Storage and Transmogrifier's

Postby Nikachelle » Fri Aug 12, 2011 9:06 am

The warrior is the brown box and the dk is the red box?

Edit: I'm jumping into this conversation late, but I don't know a single healer who relies on character visuals in order to figure out what to heal. You'll look up from Grid to check positioning, but you're not to rely on constantly healing the tank from selecting the person in a sea of people in a battleground or on a raid boss.
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Re: Void Storage and Transmogrifier's

Postby Sabindeus » Fri Aug 12, 2011 9:38 am

Nikachelle wrote:The warrior is the brown box and the dk is the red box?

Edit: I'm jumping into this conversation late, but I don't know a single healer who relies on character visuals in order to figure out what to heal. You'll look up from Grid to check positioning, but you're not to rely on constantly healing the tank from selecting the person in a sea of people in a battleground or on a raid boss.


Well just because you don't know them doesn't mean they don't exist, nor does it means Blizzard necessarily cares more about Grid than those people.
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Re: Void Storage and Transmogrifier's

Postby Flex » Fri Aug 12, 2011 9:40 am

Sagara wrote:It might not need to be a transormation of the outfit, maybe just a recolor?

But then, why work on a transmi... transmofri... change-stuff NPC and not a "mere" dye crafter?

Hm...


Recoloring probably wouldn't work with the current art system, each texture is a unique art file so to work on recoloring would require redoing all of the existing art to add in "dye" areas. So model swapping would be easiest in terms of implementation. Gear stat ID of X Model ID of Y.
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Re: Void Storage and Transmogrifier's

Postby Kerriodos » Fri Aug 12, 2011 9:41 am

Still pretty important for a priest to be able to check a certain character's positioning quickly and efficiently, since Life Grip has a facing requirement, which is what I assumed Sabin was referring to.
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Re: Void Storage and Transmogrifier's

Postby Nikachelle » Fri Aug 12, 2011 9:43 am

Sabindeus wrote:
Nikachelle wrote:The warrior is the brown box and the dk is the red box?

Edit: I'm jumping into this conversation late, but I don't know a single healer who relies on character visuals in order to figure out what to heal. You'll look up from Grid to check positioning, but you're not to rely on constantly healing the tank from selecting the person in a sea of people in a battleground or on a raid boss.


Well just because you don't know them doesn't mean they don't exist, nor does it means Blizzard necessarily cares more about Grid than those people.

Do you know of anyone who heals by looking at character visuals?

For the record, I'm not in favour of being able to change the colour or appearance of my gear.
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Re: Void Storage and Transmogrifier's

Postby Sabindeus » Fri Aug 12, 2011 9:49 am

Nikachelle wrote:
Sabindeus wrote:
Nikachelle wrote:The warrior is the brown box and the dk is the red box?

Edit: I'm jumping into this conversation late, but I don't know a single healer who relies on character visuals in order to figure out what to heal. You'll look up from Grid to check positioning, but you're not to rely on constantly healing the tank from selecting the person in a sea of people in a battleground or on a raid boss.


Well just because you don't know them doesn't mean they don't exist, nor does it means Blizzard necessarily cares more about Grid than those people.

Do you know of anyone who heals by looking at character visuals?

For the record, I'm not in favour of being able to change the colour or appearance of my gear.


As I said in my previous post, I do to see where people are in relation to me for heal ranges.

Also Nethaera, who I was paraphrasing in an earlier post.
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Re: Void Storage and Transmogrifier's

Postby Nikachelle » Fri Aug 12, 2011 9:53 am

Heal ranges? You can eyeball if you're close enough to a person and judge the difference between 40 and 45 yards? Or are you talking about something like our aoe heal and making sure people are close to you?
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Re: Void Storage and Transmogrifier's

Postby Sabindeus » Fri Aug 12, 2011 9:56 am

Nikachelle wrote:Heal ranges? You can eyeball if you're close enough to a person and judge the difference between 40 and 45 yards? Or are you talking about something like our aoe heal and making sure people are close to you?


Both. Also my buttons change color when I get in range of someone I have targetted, but I have to see them to run in the right direction. :p
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Re: Void Storage and Transmogrifier's

Postby Nikachelle » Fri Aug 12, 2011 9:58 am

Sabindeus wrote:
Nikachelle wrote:Heal ranges? You can eyeball if you're close enough to a person and judge the difference between 40 and 45 yards? Or are you talking about something like our aoe heal and making sure people are close to you?


Both. Also my buttons change color when I get in range of someone I have targetted, but I have to see them to run in the right direction. :p

Oooo that's kinda neat.
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Re: Void Storage and Transmogrifier's

Postby Sabindeus » Fri Aug 12, 2011 10:21 am

Nikachelle wrote:
Sabindeus wrote:
Nikachelle wrote:Heal ranges? You can eyeball if you're close enough to a person and judge the difference between 40 and 45 yards? Or are you talking about something like our aoe heal and making sure people are close to you?


Both. Also my buttons change color when I get in range of someone I have targetted, but I have to see them to run in the right direction. :p

Oooo that's kinda neat.


I'm pretty sure that's built-in to the action bars so if you think that's kinda neat maybe you should look at your bars once in a while... <_<
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Re: Void Storage and Transmogrifier's

Postby cerwillis » Fri Aug 12, 2011 10:25 am

I look at my screen to see positioning for range, healing rain and SLT positioning. I will also stand and watch dps to see if they will move out of stuff. I can then let them sweat a bit before I heal them if I know it's entirely avoidable. I don't go so far as to have nameplates up or mouseover macros, but I certainly couldn't heal with nothing but a 5x2 set of unitframes.
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Re: Void Storage and Transmogrifier's

Postby Nikachelle » Fri Aug 12, 2011 10:32 am

Sabindeus wrote:
Nikachelle wrote:
Sabindeus wrote:Both. Also my buttons change color when I get in range of someone I have targetted, but I have to see them to run in the right direction. :p

Oooo that's kinda neat.


I'm pretty sure that's built-in to the action bars so if you think that's kinda neat maybe you should look at your bars once in a while... <_<

It might be, but it might've also been turned off somewhere. I find my bars do really bizarre things a lot of times (and I use the standard Blizzard bars). For example, when I'm tanking, often the judgment key will be lit up as if I'd pressed it and it was about to cast - but more often than not it's NOT been pressed and it still sits there, highlighted. (I'm going to laugh when this is some built in mechanic I've never noticed before...)

And I think you guys are pigeonholing me into a healing role here. I'm not saying I DON'T look up from Grid, obviously you can't heal properly if you don't know where people are standing, but there's nothing efficient about trying to find the tank in the middle of the melee pack and trying to select them based on what gear they are wearing.
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Re: Void Storage and Transmogrifier's

Postby Zalaria » Fri Aug 12, 2011 10:44 am

Nikachelle wrote:It might be, but it might've also been turned off somewhere. I find my bars do really bizarre things a lot of times (and I use the standard Blizzard bars). For example, when I'm tanking, often the judgment key will be lit up as if I'd pressed it and it was about to cast - but more often than not it's NOT been pressed and it still sits there, highlighted. (I'm going to laugh when this is some built in mechanic I've never noticed before...)


Continuing the off-topic chat, I think the standard bars change the color of the binding when you're in and out of range. Most bar mods change the color of the whole button so it's more obvious (they also do things like blue-out the button if you don't have enough mana).

And I think the highlighting thing is a bug. I've noticed it too.
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Re: Void Storage and Transmogrifier's

Postby Sabindeus » Fri Aug 12, 2011 10:45 am

cerwillis wrote:I look at my screen to see positioning for range, healing rain and SLT positioning. I will also stand and watch dps to see if they will move out of stuff. I can then let them sweat a bit before I heal them if I know it's entirely avoidable. I don't go so far as to have nameplates up or mouseover macros, but I certainly couldn't heal with nothing but a 5x2 set of unitframes.


this
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Re: Void Storage and Transmogrifier's

Postby Flex » Fri Aug 12, 2011 10:45 am

Hilighting thing happens to me using Bartender and only for Holy Light.
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Re: Void Storage and Transmogrifier's

Postby halabar » Fri Aug 12, 2011 10:46 am

BACK TO GEAR YOU HEALERS!

Trying to figure out which Stalker set I should start farming for my hunters if a gear skinner does indeed show up on the ptr in a few weeks...

(and plotting the take-over of many AHs if you can swap more that BOAs via the Void to different realms..)
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Re: Void Storage and Transmogrifier's

Postby Sabindeus » Fri Aug 12, 2011 10:46 am

Nikachelle wrote:And I think you guys are pigeonholing me into a healing role here. I'm not saying I DON'T look up from Grid, obviously you can't heal properly if you don't know where people are standing, but there's nothing efficient about trying to find the tank in the middle of the melee pack and trying to select them based on what gear they are wearing.


Sure, but I never said I did that. That doesn't reduce the important of having well recognizable gear sets.
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Re: Void Storage and Transmogrifier's

Postby halabar » Fri Aug 12, 2011 10:47 am

Sabindeus wrote:
Nikachelle wrote:And I think you guys are pigeonholing me into a healing role here. I'm not saying I DON'T look up from Grid, obviously you can't heal properly if you don't know where people are standing, but there's nothing efficient about trying to find the tank in the middle of the melee pack and trying to select them based on what gear they are wearing.


Sure, but I never said I did that. That doesn't reduce the important of having well recognizable gear sets.


CryptStalker will be very recognizable, even moreso because it won't change as gear is upgraded, I'll keep that look. (maybe demonstalker... need to go see how that looks on a orc and dwarf..)
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Re: Void Storage and Transmogrifier's

Postby Sabindeus » Fri Aug 12, 2011 10:50 am

Now, unrelated to healing, if you zone into a Random 5 man wearing what looks like T3, your teammates lose the ability to size you up instantly and know what content you've been through.

"but they can just inspect me!"

Sure but that is merely one feature of the entire experience that Blizzard has to consider here.
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Re: Void Storage and Transmogrifier's

Postby Shoju » Fri Aug 12, 2011 10:56 am

For me, I would probably only keep my weapon the same look if possible. I like seeing new armor, when it isn't ugly.


But seriously though. If you are worried about being able to distinguish who is who based on gear,

How do you distinguish mage from warlock?

or

blood / UH / 2h Frost / Arms / Ret

or

resto from Ele?

There are already a lot of classes that can look almost exactly the same.

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That would be the purpose of "own it to use". And under that type of system, if you zone in to a 5 man wearing full t3? Chances are you don't suck. At least... not on my server, where pugging Naxx at 70 was still a challenge.
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Re: Void Storage and Transmogrifier's

Postby halabar » Fri Aug 12, 2011 10:58 am

Sabindeus wrote:Now, unrelated to healing, if you zone into a Random 5 man wearing what looks like T3, your teammates lose the ability to size you up instantly and know what content you've been through.

"but they can just inspect me!"

Sure but that is merely one feature of the entire experience that Blizzard has to consider here.


True. But I generally don't look at their gear now anyway, because EVERYONE LOOKS THE SAME. 90% of lvl 85 hunters now have 2 of the same 5 weapons equipped. Exciting diversity it ain't.
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