{25 HM} Majordomo Staghelm

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{25 HM} Majordomo Staghelm

Postby Galiks » Thu Aug 11, 2011 10:11 am

I apologize if a thread already exists for this, but I only saw a 10-man version. We're going to be attempting this on our next raid and skipping Baleroc (currently 4/7H), and had some questions after watching a few videos. It doesn't seem too complicated, I'd just really like to understand two aspects.

1. Compared to 10 man, do additional CDs need to be used to keep tanks alive on the 25-man version? Would anyone mind telling me how many times your raid stays in scorpion, and how you soak each flame scythe? I'm assuming that the raid stacks on the 7th adrenaline buff for cat, so that period of time is allowed for CDs to come back up. Unfortunately we will be using a warrior tank most likely so AD is out of the question for now. We will have two shadow priests, one disc priest, two holy paladins, and a resto shaman.

2. The flame orbs seem to be pretty chaotic and a large loss of DPS. Is there any way to optimize the amount of players needed to soak them? I believe in one video I saw a mage ice block three of them and it still fixated on him, and then a paladin bubble them while still fixating.

Again, the main point of this thread is to discuss any changes between the ideal strategy on a 10-man heroic version and 25-man heroic version (more players on 25, more CDs, etc...). Thanks for your help.
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Re: {25 HM} Majordomo Staghelm

Postby Kihra » Thu Aug 11, 2011 12:28 pm

Galiks wrote:1. Compared to 10 man, do additional CDs need to be used to keep tanks alive on the 25-man version? Would anyone mind telling me how many times your raid stays in scorpion, and how you soak each flame scythe?


To some degree this just depends on how much DPS your raid can put out. Some guilds just completely skip all scythes. They collapse for scorpion and just spread before a scythe happens and still beat enrage handily now that his health has been nerfed on 25-man.

The rotation we used for our kill was to eat one scythe per scorpion phase. I used AD on the first, third and fifth scythes. For the second and fourth scythes, I ate it by myself using Guardian Spirit, Mirror of Broken Images, Divine Protection (Glyphed), Guardian of Ancient Kings and Rallying Cry all popped together. All of these CDs together are sufficient to survive, but if you do end up with a sixth scorpion phase, they won't be sufficient. Just spread before he would scythe in that case.

It really buys you so little time that I'm skeptical that you even need to worry about eating scythes at all though. If you have AD you might as well do it, but as for the rest, just spreading out before he even scythes once is probably fine. You only buy like 5 extra seconds per scorpion phase eating scythes by yourself.
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Re: {25 HM} Majordomo Staghelm

Postby Galiks » Thu Aug 11, 2011 1:22 pm

A lot of the videos I saw post-nerf were really close to enrage even with taking some Scythes in Scorpion... I believe you'd get the most DPS in here as well since the cat phase you'll have people running about. Maybe just have to fine-tune things. Would you say my raid DPS should be on-par with your strategy if we can consistently kill heroic Beth?

Also, how much HP was removed with the nerf?

Does the seed explosion remove Concentration?

Anyone tips on flame orbs?
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Re: {25 HM} Majordomo Staghelm

Postby Boèndal » Thu Aug 11, 2011 1:45 pm

Standing at 5/7hc Staghelm is our next progression target. This german guide vid shows a decent (at least i imagine that) strat for flame orbs.
http://www.youtube.com/user/Hordeguides#p/u/0/xG5_sqPvLes They collapse at one edge of the room and force them to spawn there or at least in that half of the room.(the guide mentions that everyone including totems has to be there to make that strat working)Three people with immunities tank for 20sek each all 5 orbs using iceblock, divine shield for their last part. Anytime an orb spawns bad for that strat they have their moonkin and elemental shaman rotate that one while healing themselves cause probably healers won't be in range. He recommends 4 heal but the last WoL show some 5 heal kills too.
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Re: {25 HM} Majordomo Staghelm

Postby Kishandra » Thu Aug 11, 2011 6:24 pm

Here's the trick to forcing orbs to spawn in one particular area:

When domo transforms to human, he stuns the raid. During this time, he picks out 4 random players in the raid, then summons an orb somewhere within 40 yards of those 6 players. So indeed, stacking the entire raid on one side works.

However, if a tank (or anyone else, really) with a taunt somehow unstuns himself (via human racial, pvp trinket, bubble, etc.) during the flame orb cast, runs to a corner, and taunts domo, he insures that all 4 orbs will spawn near him because the taunt focuses all 4 orbs on him.

Then, the rest of the raid hightails it towards the other side of the room, and you rotate mages/paladins as the closest player to those 4 orbs and have them immunity when appropriate.

The damage tick is quite weird, you take stacks, but the damage comes like 5 seconds later. So what you do is sit around until 8 or 12 stacks, bubble/iceblock, then while the stacks are still building up, someone else runs and starts taking the beams, bubble/iceblock when the damage starts to happen, etc. and you just cycle through 5 people or so and completely trivialize the orb phase with immunities.
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Re: {25 HM} Majordomo Staghelm

Postby Galiks » Mon Aug 15, 2011 12:53 pm

Kishandra wrote:Here's the trick to forcing orbs to spawn in one particular area:

When domo transforms to human, he stuns the raid. During this time, he picks out 4 random players in the raid, then summons an orb somewhere within 40 yards of those 6 players. So indeed, stacking the entire raid on one side works.

However, if a tank (or anyone else, really) with a taunt somehow unstuns himself (via human racial, pvp trinket, bubble, etc.) during the flame orb cast, runs to a corner, and taunts domo, he insures that all 4 orbs will spawn near him because the taunt focuses all 4 orbs on him.

Then, the rest of the raid hightails it towards the other side of the room, and you rotate mages/paladins as the closest player to those 4 orbs and have them immunity when appropriate.

The damage tick is quite weird, you take stacks, but the damage comes like 5 seconds later. So what you do is sit around until 8 or 12 stacks, bubble/iceblock, then while the stacks are still building up, someone else runs and starts taking the beams, bubble/iceblock when the damage starts to happen, etc. and you just cycle through 5 people or so and completely trivialize the orb phase with immunities.


Sounds neat. He casts Fiery Orbs pretty fast so I'm assuming the taunter would be at max taunt range, preemptively bubble if he's a paladin (or immediately trinket/human racial), use taunt immediately and run away at max speed with Imp Judgment into a corner. I'll try this tonight, can you confirm this works consistently for you? I'll be ret so it seems like the perfect class/spec to do this..
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Re: {25 HM} Majordomo Staghelm

Postby Kishandra » Mon Aug 15, 2011 4:30 pm

So far this has worked without fail for the last four or five resets that we've killed him in.

To be fair, we use a tank who preemptively drags him to one side of the room while the rest of us twiddles our thumbs near the middle, ADs through a flame scythe, then trinket/taunts while domo is mostly already over there.

Then again, domo has a pretty quick runspeed so you may be able to get him into a corner as a ret just fine, not sure about your chances of survival afterward though.
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Re: {25 HM} Majordomo Staghelm

Postby Galiks » Mon Aug 15, 2011 10:16 pm

Kishandra wrote:So far this has worked without fail for the last four or five resets that we've killed him in.

To be fair, we use a tank who preemptively drags him to one side of the room while the rest of us twiddles our thumbs near the middle, ADs through a flame scythe, then trinket/taunts while domo is mostly already over there.

Then again, domo has a pretty quick runspeed so you may be able to get him into a corner as a ret just fine, not sure about your chances of survival afterward though.


We killed him on our first night tonight and found that it isnt random players he chooses to spawn the orbs, but just anywhere in a 40 yard radius around Domo's position at the time of the cast. We had a warrior tank and he would just heroic leap/rocket boot away from the raid and get promptly life-gripped back and they'd always spawn away from the raid. To be more specific, we shot for the dip in the wall in the NE corner of the map, and just had someone calling soaking rotations between paladins and mages.
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Re: {25 HM} Majordomo Staghelm

Postby Kishandra » Tue Aug 16, 2011 5:18 pm

That's what we thought too, but when we were learning him, unless domo had a taunt debuff on him during the cast, he'd still put the orbs everywhere in the room. Maybe he's been changed in the last month to target just the area around him /shrug.
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Re: {25 HM} Majordomo Staghelm

Postby PsiVen » Thu Aug 18, 2011 1:16 am

Just had our first night on Domo; I didn't have any luck with taunting him to stack orbs. It seemed like it might have worked once, but that was probably a coincidence with the raid stacking up. What I observed:

- DS cannot be cast during his stun
- DS cast right before his stun does not prevent it
- Regardless of immunities, the stun ends before his cast finishes
- Taunting at the end of his cast has no effect, possibly because it doesn't get to him in time.

It's possible that taunting right before the stun worked for me the one time I thought I pulled it off.
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Re: {25 HM} Majordomo Staghelm

Postby Galiks » Thu Aug 18, 2011 10:38 am

PsiVen wrote:Just had our first night on Domo; I didn't have any luck with taunting him to stack orbs. It seemed like it might have worked once, but that was probably a coincidence with the raid stacking up. What I observed:

- DS cannot be cast during his stun
- DS cast right before his stun does not prevent it
- Regardless of immunities, the stun ends before his cast finishes
- Taunting at the end of his cast has no effect, possibly because it doesn't get to him in time.

It's possible that taunting right before the stun worked for me the one time I thought I pulled it off.



Galiks wrote: We killed him on our first night tonight and found that it isnt random players he chooses to spawn the orbs, but just anywhere in a 40 yard radius around Domo's position at the time of the cast. We had a warrior tank and he would just heroic leap/rocket boot away from the raid and get promptly life-gripped back and they'd always spawn away from the raid. To be more specific, we shot for the dip in the wall in the NE corner of the map, and just had someone calling soaking rotations between paladins and mages.


On the scorpion phase before orbs, have the raid stay stacked in the center as the tank is offset towards the NE backing up Domo. After you're done soaking however many slashes you do, have the tank get as far to the NE corner as possible and then spread to force cat phase. I imagine this can be done by A) holy priest bubble B) lifegrip C) heroic leap D) many other things.

He casts orbs in a 40 yard radius around him so you want to put him at the NE, NW, SW, or SE corner at the time of the cast so he is forced to spawn the orbs in those corners and obviously not any further N/S/W/E (depending on the corner u choose) than he could. You don't need to break the stun, just make sure Domo is positioned far from the raid at the time of the transition to cat where he spawns orbs. The only time you need to break the stun is if you're having trouble moving him to a corner, in that case a player with a taunt can stand out of the raid nearer one of those corners and taunt him further away.

But yea, this boss on 25 is much more difficult than 10 man version, as is almost all of these encounters are, so good luck!

Edit: PVP trinket removes stun. I was consistently taunted him on my ret paladin away from the raid but we were having strange problems with the Spirits of Flame killing me even when I wasn't high on aggro. After this we just had the tank displace domo as previously described and it worked the same way - no removal of stun required.
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Re: {25 HM} Majordomo Staghelm

Postby PsiVen » Thu Aug 18, 2011 8:33 pm

We've been able to force orbs to spawn on the stage as long as everyone in the raid is up there (including totems), I'm just not sure about the "taunting fixates every orb on you" part. And yes, PvP trinket and human racial break the stun, which is bullshit.

I noticed the adds being squirrely a few times too, but I think if the tank is out of range of a Spirit of Flame when it chooses its target, it will melee someone else unless the tank has more than 130% of their threat (which is inherited directly from the boss). Easy enough for the tank to taunt them though, I did it for our first two kills before I realized they inherit threat...
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Re: {25 HM} Majordomo Staghelm

Postby Kihra » Fri Aug 19, 2011 10:31 am

PsiVen wrote:I noticed the adds being squirrely a few times too, but I think if the tank is out of range of a Spirit of Flame when it chooses its target, it will melee someone else unless the tank has more than 130% of their threat (which is inherited directly from the boss). Easy enough for the tank to taunt them though, I did it for our first two kills before I realized they inherit threat...


I don't think that's quite it, since with the threat changes, nobody is even remotely approaching me on threat, and the cats still attack other melee when they spawn.

I just think the cats are rooted initially, similar to the Raging Spirits on Heroic Lich King. They tend to spawn outside of a tank's melee range, since they are much smaller than Majordomo, and so they turn and hit melee even though the tank has threat.

Given that Threat Plates always shows the cats as having aggro on me, even when they initially spawn, I'm pretty confident that this theory is correct. The solution is the same as on the LK fight, i.e., just fixate them with a Taunt and get in melee range before the fixate expires.
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Re: {25 HM} Majordomo Staghelm

Postby PsiVen » Fri Aug 19, 2011 12:56 pm

We also discovered on our kill last night that there's apparently a 20M threat cap on Majordomo and the melee were catching up to me at the end of the fight. I've never noticed this before -- is there really a hard cap on maximum threat?
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Re: {25 HM} Majordomo Staghelm

Postby jaden » Fri Aug 19, 2011 3:10 pm

Could anyone confirm that Leaping Flames reads specs when determining jumps?
My guild is progressing nicely on this fight, the only sketchy part being burning orbs. We began using the 'drag him to a corner and use soakers' strat and it works sometimes, but sometimes the orbs just seem to spawn randomly regardless. The several times we have had to play the orbs straight up it seemed like people soaking orbs- already being at a deficit, if/when they get jumped toward were much more prone to dieing. Sure you can argue that if your reaction time if quick enough you shouldn't take ANY damage but that is besides the point.
My question is, if Leaping Flames reads specs, and is unable to jump at melee; theoretically could you tell a few non-cleave melee to jump out and soak orbs without fear of being leapt towards? Sure this kills the few melee's concentration, but alternatively casters/healers are sacrificing their concentration so the trade off seems ok. And it would potentially make that phase of the fight less stressful for casters/healers if they are not having to be concerned with soaking orbs and then potentially getting gibbed by leap.

I know this probably just reads like a bunch of theorycraft, but to reiterate my actual question- Does Leaping Flames determine jumps 100% through reading specs? Last night our Demo lock was stacked in melee for his aura thingy, and he got leapt at. This leads me to believe that it IS solely determined by spec. Looking for confirmation. Thanks
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