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[25HM] Shannox

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Re: [25HM] Shannox

Postby fuzzygeek » Mon Aug 01, 2011 10:52 am

At 3% last night, 6 minutes in, this happened. Is this unusual?

[20:56:15.528] Unknown Jagged Tear Shadowyn 21600
[20:56:15.674] Shannox hits Shadowyn 61665 (B: 27705)
[20:56:16.028] Shannox Arcing Slash Shadowyn 60414 (O: 31381, A: 17095)
[20:56:16.309] Shadowyn dies

Looking through logs there's usually 1.5 seconds or so between his melees and Arcing Slash. Here there was half a second. What would cause this, or is it just rfng? Does he enrage at 6 minutes or something?
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Re: [25HM] Shannox

Postby baleogthefierce » Mon Aug 01, 2011 11:17 am

fuzzygeek wrote:At 3% last night, 6 minutes in, this happened. Is this unusual?

[20:56:15.528] Unknown Jagged Tear Shadowyn 21600
[20:56:15.674] Shannox hits Shadowyn 61665 (B: 27705)
[20:56:16.028] Shannox Arcing Slash Shadowyn 60414 (O: 31381, A: 17095)
[20:56:16.309] Shadowyn dies

Looking through logs there's usually 1.5 seconds or so between his melees and Arcing Slash. Here there was half a second. What would cause this, or is it just rfng? Does he enrage at 6 minutes or something?


He does that fairly often in my experience; the only time the damage really becomes unmanageable is if you let him get too many stacks of his buff without resetting it during every spear throw. I've taken to saving my major cooldowns on this encounter for exactly those scenarios.
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Re: [25HM] Shannox

Postby fuzzygeek » Mon Aug 01, 2011 12:00 pm

I had just hit 3 stacks of Jagged Tear at that point -- is that the buff you're referring to? We generally reset every spear throw. Looking through the logs for the night, it looks like there's generally a 1.5s+ pause (or more) *after* arcing slash, but he can arcing slash as soon as .25 seconds after a normal melee.

[20:14:49.020] Shannox hits Shadowyn 48554 (B: 21814)
[20:14:49.155] Shannox casts Arcing Slash on Shadowyn
[20:14:49.262] Shannox Arcing Slash Shadowyn 79861

Hmm. I wonder why my healers bobbled the one that killed me, but not the others. Checking the fraps, I was out of CDs at that point. With AS coming every ~10s I I'll have to be more judicious.

Also: does anyone else fight him in Bale's room? It's nice to not have to fight with the goddamn terrain during a boss fight.
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Re: [25HM] Shannox

Postby baleogthefierce » Mon Aug 01, 2011 12:08 pm

fuzzygeek wrote:I had just hit 3 stacks of Jagged Tear at that point -- is that the buff you're referring to? We generally reset every spear throw. Looking through the logs for the night, it looks like there's generally a 1.5s+ pause (or more) *after* arcing slash, but he can arcing slash as soon as .25 seconds after a normal melee.

[20:14:49.020] Shannox hits Shadowyn 48554 (B: 21814)
[20:14:49.155] Shannox casts Arcing Slash on Shadowyn
[20:14:49.262] Shannox Arcing Slash Shadowyn 79861

Hmm. I wonder why my healers bobbled the one that killed me, but not the others. Checking the fraps, I was out of CDs at that point. With AS coming every ~10s I I'll have to be more judicious.

Also: does anyone else fight him in Bale's room? It's nice to not have to fight with the goddamn terrain during a boss fight.


I'm talking about the % damage increase buff that he gets on successful melee hits. Basically if that goes above 12 stacks I start popping cooldowns.

And yes, Baleroc's room is amazing both for visibility of traps and preventing terrain headaches.

*EDIT* I believe the buff is called Feeding Frenzy.
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Re: [25HM] Shannox

Postby fuzzygeek » Mon Aug 01, 2011 12:16 pm

baleogthefierce wrote:I'm talking about the % damage increase buff that he gets on successful melee hits. Basically if that goes above 12 stacks I start popping cooldowns.


Do you know what the name of this buff is? WoL doesn't show Shannox gaining any buffs for the evening, except one case of Separation Anxiety.
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Re: [25HM] Shannox

Postby Treck » Mon Aug 01, 2011 12:22 pm

No, thats the buff one of the dogs have.
Shannox does not have such a buff.

From my experience, he can do arcing slash whenever he wants, so right after and right before a normal meele hit aswell.
It has happened a few times especially on the pull, that he meeles and uses the cleave at once, ending up in a crapton of damage at one moment.
It is possible that the slash shouldnt be able to be casted close to a meele attack, and he tried to cast it, but failed since tank wasnt in meele range, so he simply delayed it untill when the tank was, thus hitting with both attacks at once.
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Re: [25HM] Shannox

Postby baleogthefierce » Mon Aug 01, 2011 12:55 pm

Treck wrote:No, thats the buff one of the dogs have.
Shannox does not have such a buff.

From my experience, he can do arcing slash whenever he wants, so right after and right before a normal meele hit aswell.
It has happened a few times especially on the pull, that he meeles and uses the cleave at once, ending up in a crapton of damage at one moment.
It is possible that the slash shouldnt be able to be casted close to a meele attack, and he tried to cast it, but failed since tank wasnt in meele range, so he simply delayed it untill when the tank was, thus hitting with both attacks at once.


True enough, I saw "Shannox" and read "Riplimb" since that 200k+ damage in under half a second has happened to me so many times while tanking the dog. In any case we've had similar problems with both Shannox and Riplimb dealing similarly unhealable damage; in the case of Riplimb it's entirely the tank's fault due to not resetting debuffs properly. Treckie's melee range explanation for Shannox's Arcing Slash seems plausible since our Shannox tank does a fair bit of kiting.
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Re: [25HM] Shannox

Postby fuzzygeek » Mon Aug 01, 2011 1:27 pm

I don't kite Shannox at all, and he's still Slashing me .25 seconds after a melee.

Going through the logs, in around 70 Slashes, he always waited at least 1.5 seconds to do his next melee attack. On the other hand, a melee attack could be followed by a Slash anywhere from .25 seconds to, like, 3 seconds:

[20:16:50.653] Shannox Arcing Slash Shadowyn 95251
[20:16:54.029] Shannox hits Shadowyn 17207 (A: 9318, B: 27608)

I assume the larger gaps are when Shannox spear tosses right after a slash.

So, rough on healers, but probably not much of a problem with a Disc priest who can just pop a bubble just before the Slash timer is up, or if healers are a little more paranoid. I took 208k damage in 2 seconds, which really should be healable.
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Re: [25HM] Shannox

Postby Galiks » Sun Aug 07, 2011 12:02 pm

On a side not, it's possible to spin Shannox so if he's moving at a 45 degree angle to Riplimb upon trying to return the spear, he won't return it. It's a nice trick to learn if ice traps are scarce and the Riplimb tank can't freeze Riplimb. You can literally have Riplimb trail behind Shannox for ~15s if need be... If this would help anyone I can demonstrate it, but its definitely not needed to defeat this boss and should only be used as an emergency.
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Re: [25HM] Shannox

Postby Belloc » Mon Aug 08, 2011 11:58 am

I would like to see a demonstration, Galiks. As you said, it sounds like a nice emergency tactic.
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Re: [25HM] Shannox

Postby Herrbjorn » Mon Aug 08, 2011 2:03 pm

Here is our sloppy first kill from a few weeks ago. You can see around 1:40 and 5:50, I kite Shannox with Riplimb in tow for between 10-15 seconds. I use this frequently to reset the debuff on myself and the offtank, a combination between strafing and a slight turn.
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Re: [25HM] Shannox

Postby fuzzygeek » Mon Aug 08, 2011 2:24 pm

Very nice and clever use of game mechanics!

I would guess the spear handoff has a very small range, and you're kiting Shannox out of Riplimb's range every time after he does that little dash.
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Re: [25HM] Shannox

Postby Herrbjorn » Tue Aug 09, 2011 5:37 am

It appears to be a small handoff range. If you run into a rock, it's almost a guaranteed spear return, so we are now clearing Baleroc before Shannox, since his room is rock free and flat!
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Re: [25HM] Shannox

Postby fuzzygeek » Tue Aug 09, 2011 8:40 am

I'm a big proponent of using Bale's room for Shannox. I do sincerely detest the concept of patrolling bosses (anything that forces your raid to sit around and do nothing is bad design) and the unlock mechanism (requiring the killing of trash to unlock a boss when hitting the raid difficulty switch can force a soft reset is unbearably stupid).

I have a video of the H.Shannox fight in Bale's room here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdZUi8_ymow You can watch me lose track of an immolation trap at the end and walk into it :D

It is a very boring fight. I've got the vent stream in there and you can hear people coordinating stack management.

But really, people need to just take a few steps away from Rageface when he gets trapped and it's really a stupidly simple fight.
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Re: [25HM] Shannox

Postby Galiks » Tue Aug 09, 2011 9:51 am

Belloc wrote:I would like to see a demonstration, Galiks. As you said, it sounds like a nice emergency tactic.


I'll FRAPS it today when we do it, but if you watch the video in the post below yours you can see after about 1:40 in that Riplimb trails behind Shannox. Blizzard tried to fix this sort of thing in a patch shortly after Firelands release with "Shannox will now rotate when appropriate instead of moving to get in range of his target while being tanked.". This made it more difficult to do since you couldn't just run in a straight line anymore, but I found that if you strafe it still works (probably works because you're theoretically increasing the distance from moving in a straight line and are now rather moving along the hypotenuse of a triangle).

I've had Riplimb trail behind Shannox for up to 20s, anything over that and he will have actually generate another spear come time to "Hurl Spear" and hurl it in melee range at Riplimb, trailing ever-so closely behind him. Of course, this is only useful as an emergency tactic if Riplimb cannot be trapped to reset stacks - but with our raid it seems that most of the ice traps are needed by Rageface targets; it makes it a more lax encounter if you only have to worry about trapping one dog.

But yea, to put it simply, you need a clearish area where you can strafe in a concentric circle, and Shannox has to be about a 90 degree angle IN MOVEMENT already before Riplimb gets close to him. I do it in the rocky area at the start, but if you hit a rock or have to abandon your circle-path it won't work. Again, I'll try to FRAPS it tonight.

Edit: sorry couldn't get it this week. We killed a corehound quickly before the pull and I didn't know he died on top of a cluster of rocks. long story short, couldn't see where i was going and my bastard raid killed it still :(
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