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{25 HM} Alysrazor

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{25 HM} Alysrazor

Postby 2Cute2BeStr8 » Thu Aug 04, 2011 10:24 pm

Thus far this has been one of the most difficult tanking fights yet. I just wanted to make this post because I browsed but didn't see a thread for it other than the 10 man. I've watched Towilee's video and many more. From my experience and from the video's it seems like you can't do what you do on normal and just let them tantrum and then have them eat a worm or you'll get roflestomped.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/c ... i/advanced There is the general gear set up I use I have some minor adjustments.

I use the 378 Hyjal Rep Cloak, 372 HM Chimeraon Ring, 359 License to slay and I use the Hyjal Reward Dodge trinket.

I try my best to always get to a worm before he tantrums and if I am far away from a worm, I preemptively pop a 20 percent damage reduction CD, and dodge trinket until I can get to worm. I do my best on damage glyph focused shield, and crusader strike, use retribution aura. I need to look through logs and see if spiked shields get the increase ( someone said it did but not the full amount which I found odd). Basically though I feel like I have to be doing something wrong with how I'm getting to the worms.

I always get two feathers and I'd say it is an absolute must, if you get hit by fire you die so it makes it very difficult to get to a worm depending on how it is rotating so I'm asking for any advise there. Also at certain points I'd have trouble on the pull when a meteor, brushfire and worm were all trying to melt my face away and I needed to get in there. I dont consider myself a bad tank at all, but I just feel so bad when I die in one global. I try to BoP myself if he tantrums, but one attempt tonight I popped dodge trinket as soon as he was hungry and in that GCD he tantrumed, and I didn't BoP myself quick enough.

Would it be more beneficial to wear a full 102.4 set ( a little less because they are 87?) and just hope that our dps can kill it behind meteors.

Also how many DPS are you sending up? We've only been sending up 3? So maybe if we sent up some more DoT classes they could come down a tad earlier and help finish of the adds? The only problem I can see with that is a tantrum behind the meteor while we are waiting for them to finish it off? So I'm thinking eat the two worms ASAP, and try to save CD's for the guaranteed tantrum behind the meteor?

Also two protection paladins can get every interrupt of ignition on heroic mode correct? Cycling Rebuke, Hoj, Avengers Shield, Rebuke, Arcane Torrent, Avengers Shield or something to that affect?

Sorry for the jumbled unorganized wall of text I'm just very flustered at how poorly I feel I am doing. The other tank died quit a bit too. Any help on this would be much appreciated.

Racking my brain out here but this is seriously the first time I've actually even considered wanting my four piece. Also do you guys think we need shield wall for when we're tanking Alysrazor herself? I hate this fire bird. Really haven't had but 20 odd attempts on her so I'm sure we'll get it down. Ugh having to go through 9 of those voracious hatchlings I really just want to use my regular tank gear but feel like I won't have enough damage/hit.
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Re: {25 HM} Alysrazor

Postby Treck » Fri Aug 05, 2011 6:19 am

2Cute2BeStr8 wrote:I use the 378 Hyjal Rep Cloak, 372 HM Chimeraon Ring, 359 License to slay and I use the Hyjal Reward Dodge trinket.

Personally, i use quite a few parts thats not in my normal tanking gear, mostly tank gear with hit/exp.
Like, maloriak head, t11 shoulders/chest for setbonus (t12 2part would be good aswell), hyjal rep cloak, old ring/boots reforged with hit.
But mostly the trinkets.
Using both Essence of the eternal Flame its short CD makes it good for each hatchling.
Also using Heart of Rage for the expertise, sadly its procc usually comes to fast when you dont have any vengeance.
I still manage about 94% CTC, wouldnt say CTC cap was important but it is helpfull if your having trouble staying alive.
Also brings be up to 24exp and 6.5% hit (had this gear since i was Dwarf, now that im draenei im 0.5% over the "cap" for the adds.

2Cute2BeStr8 wrote:I try my best to always get to a worm before he tantrums and if I am far away from a worm, I preemptively pop a 20 percent damage reduction CD, and dodge trinket until I can get to worm. I do my best on damage glyph focused shield, and crusader strike, use retribution aura. I need to look through logs and see if spiked shields get the increase ( someone said it did but not the full amount which I found odd). Basically though I feel like I have to be doing something wrong with how I'm getting to the worms.

I always make my way to the 2nd worm as soon as ive eaten the first one, and unless they throw a tantrum early, i try to eat a worm every 30% anyway.
If he doesnt throw a tantrum fast, i sometimes just use DP+HS and wait for tantrum before i eat the worm.
It shouldnt be able to kill you that fast with DP+HS up and should only get 2-3 hits on you.
Shield spike does NOT get increased.
Retribution aura didnt seem to get any benefit eather (maybe if its your own, but im pretty sure that also didnt work)

2Cute2BeStr8 wrote:I always get two feathers and I'd say it is an absolute must, if you get hit by fire you die so it makes it very difficult to get to a worm depending on how it is rotating so I'm asking for any advise there. Also at certain points I'd have trouble on the pull when a meteor, brushfire and worm were all trying to melt my face away and I needed to get in there. I dont consider myself a bad tank at all, but I just feel so bad when I die in one global. I try to BoP myself if he tantrums, but one attempt tonight I popped dodge trinket as soon as he was hungry and in that GCD he tantrumed, and I didn't BoP myself quick enough.

I never get feathers, and its very doable without tbh.
A feather or 2 isnt bad, but I always let dpsers/healers get them instead.
Even having an add up during tornadoes without any feathers is doable, not optimal, but doable.

2Cute2BeStr8 wrote:Also how many DPS are you sending up? We've only been sending up 3? So maybe if we sent up some more DoT classes they could come down a tad earlier and help finish of the adds?

Some dot classes are really usefull to help dot up the adds, it will make a difference, and if im not mistaken, shadowpriests and warlocks gain more dps by dotting 3 targets than one + fillers on the boss.

2Cute2BeStr8 wrote:Also two protection paladins can get every interrupt of ignition on heroic mode correct? Cycling Rebuke, Hoj, Avengers Shield, Rebuke, Arcane Torrent, Avengers Shield or something to that affect?

A protpaladin can do it reliably indeed, since your already using a bit of hit gear avengers shield shouldnt miss i guess.
But they recast ignition every 5 sec.
So i always start with rebuke, then AVS, rebuke, and then i use HoJ (since they are stunned then for 6 seconds it will actually prevent them from recasting again, so it buys you 10sec of dps on the boss) and at that point the boss usually has 50 energy.

2Cute2BeStr8 wrote:Also do you guys think we need shield wall for when we're tanking Alysrazor herself? I hate this fire bird. Really haven't had but 20 odd attempts on her so I'm sure we'll get it down. Ugh having to go through 9 of those voracious hatchlings I really just want to use my regular tank gear but feel like I won't have enough damage/hit.

I never use shieldwall for when tanking Alysrazor herself, you only tank her for like 10-15sec.
So holy shield + Divine protection "should" last you good, with some other small CDs like trinkets + WoG.
I usually use pretty much every dps CD on the very first bird, since its the "hardest" one.
Theres less and less for the dpsers to dps as the fight goes further on, so the 2nd and 3rd hatchling should die faster than the first one.
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Re: {25 HM} Alysrazor

Postby 2Cute2BeStr8 » Fri Aug 05, 2011 1:27 pm

Thanks for the tips. Just a minor thing shield spike does get increased btw. Average hit 3k from world of logs unless its off/wrong.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/xmcg ... 917&e=7144

Are there any mods for range for that fire I know that sounds weird, but I see videos where the tanks are just right in between two spews and I'm just way to paranoid for all that.
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Re: {25 HM} Alysrazor

Postby Treck » Fri Aug 05, 2011 3:29 pm

I always stand right in between the worms, and you dont get hit by any if you do so.
The breath is (to my knowledge) actually smaller than it looks, also not as wide.
However its not by much, and it is moving so i wouldnt count to much on it.
But standing right between them is a clear safespot i always use.
It can get tricky with a meteor should it come your way, and brushfires.

So basicly, thats the position i run to asap after its spawned, and i stay there untill i feel it might throw a tantrum "soon", and go to the worm that is currently spewing in a direction that is easier to handle.

Im sure we tried the shieldspikes out during the first week, and it didnt work by then.
It could have been another version (since theres 2) of the spike, and maybe one works?
They have also done some technical changes to the buff, that could end up making it work.
Also EU/US doesnt always have the exact same patching.
In any case, i wouldnt say its worth it anyway if its doing about 60k damage, thats not even gonna make the add die one GCD faster.
If im looking at the logs correctly, that 3min 47sec try involved 2 adds, thats 30k dmg per add, thats about what SoT ticks for, every second.
Considering your giving up 50mastery for it, thats a pretty strong enchant.
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Re: {25 HM} Alysrazor

Postby Galiks » Sun Aug 07, 2011 12:09 pm

Going to be attempting this fight this week for the first time. Can anyone provide some insight to the amount of healers brought, amount of DPS split between each side on the ground, and the amount of DPS sent up? Is sending DPS on 25-man as worthwhile as 10 man? Apparently you can kill him in two burn-outs consistently on 10 if you send people up..

Any tips or recommendations as well to learning this encounter quickly? Mainly meteor-handling please since that seems to be the only added "tricky" part. Also, should any adds/worms be alive upon stacking behind the meteor, or should the room be clear? Thanks!
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Re: {25 HM} Alysrazor

Postby Rhiannon » Sun Aug 07, 2011 8:54 pm

Pyrium Shield Spikes worked fine for us in the first week of heroic progress (at least by the 9th, when we got to it), as did ret aura, though it was still pathetic damage. Thorns is slightly more significant if you can get it, and tricks is helpful too if you're struggling to kill your add. Also make sure your add is getting properly debuffed - most importantly for us ofc is curse of the elements or similar, and Alys is usually out of range if you're relying on jinxed curse of elements off her.
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Re: {25 HM} Alysrazor

Postby Kishandra » Mon Aug 08, 2011 12:49 am

Galiks wrote:Going to be attempting this fight this week for the first time. Can anyone provide some insight to the amount of healers brought, amount of DPS split between each side on the ground, and the amount of DPS sent up? Is sending DPS on 25-man as worthwhile as 10 man? Apparently you can kill him in two burn-outs consistently on 10 if you send people up..

Any tips or recommendations as well to learning this encounter quickly? Mainly meteor-handling please since that seems to be the only added "tricky" part. Also, should any adds/worms be alive upon stacking behind the meteor, or should the room be clear? Thanks!


2 tanks, 6 healers, 17 dps.
3 dps sent flying.
Definitely able to consistently kill Alys in two burn-outs if you send 3 up, maybe even 2.

Have tanks in full tank gear. Put soulstones on them. Recovering from a tank death is nigh-impossible without a near instant rez. Phase 1 is the only phase that has any real difference between normal and heroic, if you can survive that you've won the fight (as soon as people stop dying to tornadoes). Survive the fight, and once you've done so, add dps as needed to beat the encounter in 2-3 cycles.

Alysrazor tends to give you slightly less time to kill adds (by 5-10 seconds) on the first set of adds after a burnout.

Drop a frost trap under spawning meteors for the instant snare. All range dps switch to it for a couple seconds to kill it.

The room should be clear.
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Re: {25 HM} Alysrazor

Postby Galiks » Mon Aug 08, 2011 9:36 am

Kishandra wrote:
Galiks wrote:Going to be attempting this fight this week for the first time. Can anyone provide some insight to the amount of healers brought, amount of DPS split between each side on the ground, and the amount of DPS sent up? Is sending DPS on 25-man as worthwhile as 10 man? Apparently you can kill him in two burn-outs consistently on 10 if you send people up..

Any tips or recommendations as well to learning this encounter quickly? Mainly meteor-handling please since that seems to be the only added "tricky" part. Also, should any adds/worms be alive upon stacking behind the meteor, or should the room be clear? Thanks!


2 tanks, 6 healers, 17 dps.
3 dps sent flying.
Definitely able to consistently kill Alys in two burn-outs if you send 3 up, maybe even 2.

Have tanks in full tank gear. Put soulstones on them. Recovering from a tank death is nigh-impossible without a near instant rez. Phase 1 is the only phase that has any real difference between normal and heroic, if you can survive that you've won the fight (as soon as people stop dying to tornadoes). Survive the fight, and once you've done so, add dps as needed to beat the encounter in 2-3 cycles.

Alysrazor tends to give you slightly less time to kill adds (by 5-10 seconds) on the first set of adds after a burnout.

Drop a frost trap under spawning meteors for the instant snare. All range dps switch to it for a couple seconds to kill it.

The room should be clear.


Thanks for the information!

Also, do you recommend sending a certain class(es) into the air? I see that fire mages can tear it up, but ranged DPS seem to be advantageous on the ground over melee for obvious reasons.
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Re: {25 HM} Alysrazor

Postby Treck » Mon Aug 08, 2011 11:47 am

DoT classes in general.
Firemage, shadowpriest, moonkin, aff lock.
And i think more or less in that order.
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Re: {25 HM} Alysrazor

Postby Rokh » Wed Aug 10, 2011 3:48 pm

I know this isnt something most people can do right now since valor points are still in pretty high demand. But I managed to get lucky and got my 2pc ret from BH this week.

Ret gloves and legs, prot shoulders and chest, 359 str JP trinket, hyjal str rep trinket.

Was there a hatchling here? what hatchling.
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Re: {25 HM} Alysrazor

Postby PsiVen » Thu Aug 11, 2011 12:18 am

We just started working on this tonight. Seems pretty safe going with a block-capped set dropping stam flask and trinket for STR flask and License to Slay (which leaves me with about 15 exp and 2.7% hit). My add is not always dead before Firestorm due to bad miss streaks, but I can drag the add over there, or even eat a tick of it or bubble anyway if I'm too slow.

Worth noting that if you're optimizing your gear for this, STR flasks give you about .6% parry and 87 mobs require .8% less CTC (101.6% goal, whereas a block cap set with STR flask will put you just over 103%). So you should be able to drop ~100 mastery into hit if you can tweak your gear in that direction and stay fully capped.

But then, we were 4-healing shorthanded. With 6 healers, you can probably get away with considerable DPS gear without an issue, and you won't need to rely on Holy Shield because the mob will be dead before a final Tantrum every time.

I definitely don't believe you should be taking feathers as a tank. 2 feathers is way more than necessary, and 1 feather is barely an improvement (none at all if Windwalk is up). Healers with feathers are much more valuable to your survival.
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Re: {25 HM} Alysrazor

Postby pfunkmort » Fri Aug 12, 2011 4:43 am

I ran 2 pc 11 and 2 pc 12, with the mastery trinket from rep and license to slay. I wasn't in a position where I could drop my elixirs and stay block capped, but just 2-3 regems and I could fit the hit trinket. It helps especially on the first hatchling to dps alys as she's starting out the fight, then hit the initiates a couple times while you wait, to keep your str stacks from LtS going into the first bird. With thorns from boomkins, both of our pally tanks parsed, probably just because our fight ran long. pretty much needed to CD one enrage each bird though...dunno if people can kill them consistently before that with a str flask?

on a side note, the fight's long enough for the LoH glyph to probably be worth it, if you're dropping dp or something else you don't need with so much melee damage.

another thing that helped us was when we got it through everyone's head that the tornadoes spawn in the same spots every time. You get x number of wipes under your belt, you should be using that time to find somewhere you can consistently BE when that phase starts, that you know is going to be safe.
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Re: {25 HM} Alysrazor

Postby Darielle » Fri Aug 12, 2011 2:28 pm

Also, do you recommend sending a certain class(es) into the air? I see that fire mages can tear it up, but ranged DPS seem to be advantageous on the ground over melee for obvious reasons.


The meteor has 500k health, so the number of ranged dps you need downstairs is very low, as long as they get on it asap and you slow it asap. When one of those factors goes out of whack, you may need to compensate and keep one more down or something, but ideally that shouldn't be happening ever.

As we found out the hard way (/brofist Psiven), you can 23-man progression on the fight and still look at a kill right after the 2nd burnout. It's just all about controlling the ground and staying alive.
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