Unexpected damage at high Torment stacks

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Unexpected damage at high Torment stacks

Postby shaydwyrm » Tue Aug 02, 2011 3:39 pm

This is my first post here, so I apologize if this is the wrong place for this.

I am trying to make sense of some recent logs off of Baleroc, and I am not understanding how the numbers work out for mitigation cooldowns. In particular, I feel like players are not getting the full value of mitigation cooldowns - or at least the value I would expect. I've posted a representative log below of a fury warrior tanking the torment debuff to 25 stacks. We had expected that with glyphed shield wall up, at 25 stacks the torment debuff should deal damage roughly equivalent to 10 stacks unmitigated, but in practice it appears that the damage taken is considerably higher than that.

Up to 16 stacks the damage is very clear and predictable - damage + resisted = 4000 * (# of stacks - 1). However, after using pain suppression, and later shield wall, the damage no longer adds up in a way that makes sense to me. At 17 stacks the damage should tick for 64000 * .6 = 38400 before resists, but instead ticks for 40448. This difference is much more noticeable at 25 stacks, where the expected damage is 96000 * .4 = 38400 before resists (60% mitigation from glyphed shield wall), but instead ticks for 123,376 before resists - more damage than the debuff should be dealing in the first place - and after resists deals 66045, close to 75% more damage than expected.

Can anyone clarify for me what the proper way to calculate expected damage after mitigation is in cases like this? Is this some quirk in how resistances are calculated, or in how they are reported in the logs?

You can view the full log here

Code: Select all
[21:58:57.258]  Scuffs afflicted by Torment  (15) from Shard of Torment
[21:58:57.374] Shard of Torment Torment Scuffs 44800 (R: 11200)
[21:58:57.776] Dellanie casts Pain Suppression on Scuffs
[21:58:58.070] Scuffs afflicted by Torment (16) from Shard of Torment
[21:58:58.103] Scuffs gains Pain Suppression from Dellanie
[21:58:58.228] Shard of Torment Torment Scuffs 48000 (R: 12000)
[21:58:59.284] Scuffs afflicted by Torment (17) from Shard of Torment
[21:58:59.429] Shard of Torment Torment Scuffs 27648 (R: 12800)
[21:58:59.800] Scuffs gains Shield Wall from Scuffs
[21:59:00.130] Scuffs afflicted by Torment (18) from Shard of Torment
[21:59:00.227] Shard of Torment Torment Scuffs 21167 (A: 4537, R: 20400)
[21:59:01.352] Scuffs afflicted by Torment (19) from Shard of Torment
[21:59:01.437] Shard of Torment Torment Scuffs 12442 (R: 14400)
[21:59:02.133] Scuffs afflicted by Torment (20) from Shard of Torment
[21:59:02.268] Shard of Torment Torment Scuffs 10861 (A: 2928, R: 27360)
[21:59:03.361] Scuffs afflicted by Torment (21) from Shard of Torment
[21:59:03.652] Shard of Torment Torment Scuffs 2922 (A: 19473, R: 11520)
[21:59:04.183] Scuffs afflicted by Torment (22) from Shard of Torment
[21:59:04.380] Shard of Torment Torment Scuffs 21947 (R: 43546)
[21:59:05.400] Scuffs afflicted by Torment (23) from Shard of Torment
[21:59:05.563] Shard of Torment Torment Scuffs 13317 (A: 18215, R: 36495)
[21:59:06.082] Dellanie's Pain Suppression fades from Scuffs
[21:59:06.227] Scuffs afflicted by Torment (24) from Shard of Torment
[21:59:06.440] Shard of Torment Torment Scuffs 37955 (A: 1603, R: 45785)
[21:59:07.038] Scuffs afflicted by Torment (25) from Shard of Torment
[21:59:07.170] Shard of Torment Torment Scuffs 58930 (A: 7115, R: 57331)
[21:59:09.027] Shard of Torment's Torment fades from Scuffs
[21:59:11.833] Scuffs's Shield Wall fades from Scuffs


Edit: Adjusted title to more accurately indicate the issue
Last edited by shaydwyrm on Wed Aug 03, 2011 1:30 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Mitigation CDs in logs

Postby Kihra » Tue Aug 02, 2011 11:25 pm

Resists happen before you reduce the damage. He shifts to Defensive Stance after stack 16. This reduces his damage by 10% and it stacks multiplicatively with Pain Suppression of 40%.

So for example stack 17 is 64k damage:

[21:58:59.429] Shard of Torment Torment Scuffs 27648 (R: 12800)

He resists 20% so what's left is 51200 damage. He then reduces that by 0.6 * 0.9 * 51200 to get 27648.

At 19 stacks he has Shield Wall and Pain Supp and Defensive Stance and takes:

[21:59:01.437] Shard of Torment Torment Scuffs 12442 (R: 14400)

This is consistent with (72000 - 14400) * (0.4 * 0.6 * 0.9) = 12442.

I don't know the exact formula, but the last 5 ticks are not just 4k*stacks. It ramps up dramatically, with each tick being even worse than the last. This is true on normal and heroic. The dungeon journal is just wrong.
Last edited by Kihra on Tue Aug 02, 2011 11:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Mitigation CDs in logs

Postby RedAces » Tue Aug 02, 2011 11:27 pm

the Resist-amount is pre-Damage-reduce. So if you have shield wall running (60%) and take a 100k hit it would be reduced to 40k, but if you resist say 50% of it, it would be shown as
Shard of Torment Scuffs 20000 (R: 50000)

This bug (?) is as old as the whole resist mechanic itself...
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Re: Mitigation CDs in logs

Postby Kihra » Tue Aug 02, 2011 11:34 pm

RedAces wrote:the Resist-amount is pre-Damage-reduce. So if you have shield wall running (60%) and take a 100k hit it would be reduced to 40k, but if you resist say 50% of it, it would be shown as
Shard of Torment Scuffs 20000 (R: 50000)

This bug (?) is as old as the whole resist mechanic itself...


I don't think that's the issue he's seeing here though. He's assuming the last five stacks of Torment are following the same formula, but they are not. For example our shadow priest with Dispersion up on heroic still takes like 18k damage on the 25th stack. The damage ramps up dramatically on those last five stacks.
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Re: Mitigation CDs in logs

Postby RedAces » Tue Aug 02, 2011 11:41 pm

I said the same as you Kihra! But yeah ok the last 5 ticks maybe different, calculating the raw damage done of the last tick (222k damage). If the formula is correct it would need 55 stacks for this damage, so clearly they are something special.
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Re: Mitigation CDs in logs

Postby Kihra » Tue Aug 02, 2011 11:50 pm

RedAces wrote:But yeah ok the last 5 ticks maybe different, calculating the raw damage done of the last tick (222k damage). If the formula is correct it would need 55 stacks for this damage, so clearly they are something special.


Yeah, like look at this damage from our Shadow Priest on our H25 kill:

[22:35:02.263] Assurance afflicted by Torment (19) from Shard of Torment
[22:35:02.296] Shard of Torment Torment Assurance 26989 (A: 11567, R: 27000)
[22:35:02.303] Assurance gains Dispersion from Assurance
[22:35:02.303] Assurance casts Dispersion
[22:35:03.093] Assurance afflicted by Torment (20) from Shard of Torment
[22:35:03.134] Shard of Torment Torment Assurance 4395 (A: 1884, R: 11400)
[22:35:04.331] Assurance afflicted by Torment (21) from Shard of Torment
[22:35:04.331] Shard of Torment Torment Assurance 5552 (A: 2380, R: 14400)
[22:35:05.123] Assurance afflicted by Torment (22) from Shard of Torment
[22:35:05.154] Shard of Torment Torment Assurance 3877 (A: 3896, R: 54432)
[22:35:06.325] Assurance afflicted by Torment (23) from Shard of Torment
[22:35:06.376] Shard of Torment Torment Assurance 13028 (R: 68429)
[22:35:07.159] Assurance afflicted by Torment (24) from Shard of Torment
[22:35:07.180] Shard of Torment Torment Assurance 21016 (R: 28616)
[22:35:08.301] Assurance's Dispersion fades from Assurance
[22:35:08.404] Assurance afflicted by Torment (25) from Shard of Torment
[22:35:08.404] Shard of Torment Torment Assurance 17345 (A: 8970, R: 35832)

That's with Dispersion up. The last few ticks definitely use a different formula, unlike the first 19 ticks or so.
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Re: Mitigation CDs in logs

Postby shaydwyrm » Wed Aug 03, 2011 12:39 pm

Kihra wrote:The last few ticks definitely use a different formula, unlike the first 19 ticks or so.

Okay thanks, that makes sense, though it's a bit disappointing. Seems like short of stacking several cooldowns simultaneously only a shadow priest is capable of tanking those last few ticks.

Kihra wrote:He shifts to Defensive Stance after stack 16. This reduces his damage by 10% and it stacks multiplicatively with Pain Suppression of 40%.

This is what I missed on the earlier stacks, forgot about the defensive stance mitigation.
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