Tank Comparisons...again

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Re: Tank Comparisons...again

Postby Sagara » Mon Aug 01, 2011 8:17 am

Pyrea wrote:
Sagara wrote:Funnily, I just realized how DK are on the knife's edge. Our DK Tank got crushed like a bug (ahah) repeatedly on Beth 10N lest weekend. Every time he went upstairs he lived roughly 30-45 seconds before getting *SMAAAAAAAAAAAASHED*


Smouldering Devastation?


Nah, the healer was still up there and alive.
Still need to upload and analyse the parse, but I'm guessing general spike deaths.
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Re: Tank Comparisons...again

Postby Levantine » Mon Aug 01, 2011 8:36 am

Probably along the lines of "Avoid-avoid-avoid oh look I have sweet fuck all blood shield because I miss timed a Death Strike splat".
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Re: Tank Comparisons...again

Postby Shoju » Mon Aug 01, 2011 8:43 am

Sagara wrote:Funnily, I just realized how DK are on the knife's edge. Our DK Tank got crushed like a bug (ahah) repeatedly on Beth 10N lest weekend. Every time he went upstairs he lived roughly 30-45 seconds before getting *SMAAAAAAAAAAAASHED*


I hate to be a buzz kill, but if your DK was getting rocked and died upstairs, he is doing something woefully, terribly, utterly wrong.

Last week on our KILL of Beth, my healer fell down and died during first Beth phase immediately after getting upstairs. I had him Brezzed, and stay downstairs to get mana. I self healed / CD'd my way through a full upstairs phase.

I'm not in a cutting edge guild. I'm not even remotely op. I'm not wearing some amazing amount of gear.

Dks' are absolutely fine in Normal Modes. We are fine in 10n. We are fine in 25n. We are..... 'ok' in 10h. We are unacceptable in 25h. We are dying way too fast in 25h. We cannot simply stack up to shield tanks in heroic encounters. There is a group of DK tanks who are compiling the representation numbers, the damage numbers.

Basically, blizzard said they wanted to get away from the system of being able to die really fast, and they have when it comes to bears, paladins, and warriors. DK's on the other hand, are getting mauled in 25h.


EDIT:
I just realized that I didn't log in my tank stuff. You can see it on WoW-heroes, click on my blood spec, the only difference between what it shows and what I'm wearing is that I have the VP neck now.

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Re: Tank Comparisons...again

Postby Aanar » Mon Aug 01, 2011 8:50 am

I know you're focused on raiding, but for healing 5 mans most of the squishy tanks I run into seem to be DKs. There are a lot of great DKs out there, but there's also a lot of bad ones that must not be timing death strike and CDs very well.
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Re: Tank Comparisons...again

Postby Levantine » Mon Aug 01, 2011 8:52 am

Aanar wrote:I know you're focused on raiding, but for healing 5 mans most of the squishy tanks I run into seem to be DKs. There are a lot of great DKs out there, but there's also a lot of bad ones that must not be timing death strike and CDs very well.

It's more that they don't realise what timing DS even is.
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Re: Tank Comparisons...again

Postby Aanar » Mon Aug 01, 2011 8:58 am

Levantine wrote:
Aanar wrote:I know you're focused on raiding, but for healing 5 mans most of the squishy tanks I run into seem to be DKs. There are a lot of great DKs out there, but there's also a lot of bad ones that must not be timing death strike and CDs very well.

It's more that they don't realise what timing DS even is.

Lol. Sadly, that could very well be the case.
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Re: Tank Comparisons...again

Postby Malthrax » Mon Aug 01, 2011 9:01 am

Aanar wrote:
Levantine wrote:
Aanar wrote:I know you're focused on raiding, but for healing 5 mans most of the squishy tanks I run into seem to be DKs. There are a lot of great DKs out there, but there's also a lot of bad ones that must not be timing death strike and CDs very well.

It's more that they don't realise what timing DS even is.

Lol. Sadly, that could very well be the case.


It *is* the case. LFD 5-mans are filled with players who don't know how to play their classes. Granted, most of the raids I wind up in these days seem to have a similar problem... :(
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Re: Tank Comparisons...again

Postby Worldie » Mon Aug 01, 2011 9:43 am

Levantine wrote:
Aanar wrote:I know you're focused on raiding, but for healing 5 mans most of the squishy tanks I run into seem to be DKs. There are a lot of great DKs out there, but there's also a lot of bad ones that must not be timing death strike and CDs very well.

It's more that they don't realise what timing DS even is.

I don't either. Care to explain me? As i occasionally tank alt raids on my DK.
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Re: Tank Comparisons...again

Postby Dane » Mon Aug 01, 2011 10:12 am

Worldie wrote:
Levantine wrote:
Aanar wrote:I know you're focused on raiding, but for healing 5 mans most of the squishy tanks I run into seem to be DKs. There are a lot of great DKs out there, but there's also a lot of bad ones that must not be timing death strike and CDs very well.

It's more that they don't realise what timing DS even is.

I don't either. Care to explain me? As i occasionally tank alt raids on my DK.


I have my own curiosities about this, for similar reasons. My suspicion is that it's about holding Death Strike (in applicable situations) for just after a big hit or succession of hits (within the what...6 second time limit?) to ensure the healing received is as effective as possible, and the Blood Shield is as large as possible, rather than just spamming DS on CD.

That sound at all accurate to anyone?
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Re: Tank Comparisons...again

Postby Sagara » Mon Aug 01, 2011 10:16 am

Shoju wrote:
Sagara wrote:Funnily, I just realized how DK are on the knife's edge. Our DK Tank got crushed like a bug (ahah) repeatedly on Beth 10N lest weekend. Every time he went upstairs he lived roughly 30-45 seconds before getting *SMAAAAAAAAAAAASHED*


I hate to be a buzz kill, but if your DK was getting rocked and died upstairs, he is doing something woefully, terribly, utterly wrong.

Last week on our KILL of Beth, my healer fell down and died during first Beth phase immediately after getting upstairs. I had him Brezzed, and stay downstairs to get mana. I self healed / CD'd my way through a full upstairs phase.

I'm not in a cutting edge guild. I'm not even remotely op. I'm not wearing some amazing amount of gear.

Dks' are absolutely fine in Normal Modes. We are fine in 10n. We are fine in 25n. We are..... 'ok' in 10h. We are unacceptable in 25h. We are dying way too fast in 25h. We cannot simply stack up to shield tanks in heroic encounters. There is a group of DK tanks who are compiling the representation numbers, the damage numbers.

Basically, blizzard said they wanted to get away from the system of being able to die really fast, and they have when it comes to bears, paladins, and warriors. DK's on the other hand, are getting mauled in 25h.


EDIT:
I just realized that I didn't log in my tank stuff. You can see it on WoW-heroes, click on my blood spec, the only difference between what it shows and what I'm wearing is that I have the VP neck now.

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No offense taken! I DID post a frustration about it ;-) 'Anyhow, to cut short on the off-topicyness, could you give me a ressource or two I could give the guy - he's a decent learner, but lacks in the initiative department.

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Re: Tank Comparisons...again

Postby Flex » Mon Aug 01, 2011 10:18 am

That is more or less correct.

In normal modes it isn't too much of an issue if geared okay and you have a pulse.
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Re: Tank Comparisons...again

Postby Gerunna » Mon Aug 01, 2011 10:26 am

There's a decent write-up of maximizing DS and how to play "rune Tetris" at the Wowhead forums.
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Re: Tank Comparisons...again

Postby Aanar » Mon Aug 01, 2011 10:36 am

I read there's a mod for DKs that helps with DS timing by lighting up at oppurtune times or something. My DK is just an alt that I've only tanked reg heroics with so I haven't bothered trying to omptimize too much.

I wonder if there's still DKs out there trying to tank in frost spec. :roll:
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Re: Tank Comparisons...again

Postby Amirya » Mon Aug 01, 2011 11:27 am

And still dual wield.

I've seen. When I'm on my healer.

It's why I prefer to heal guild tanks. At least they have brains.
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Re: Tank Comparisons...again

Postby bldavis » Mon Aug 01, 2011 4:09 pm

Amirya wrote:And still dual wield.

I've seen. When I'm on my healer.

It's why I prefer to heal guild tanks. At least they have brains.

we do?
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