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firelands (HC) issues

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firelands (HC) issues

Postby leech2 » Thu Jul 28, 2011 2:54 am

hi, once more i got some question to you guys.i am not sure if this is the right section but - here we go:

me: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/area-52/Keto/simple
i try to focus on mitigation because avoidance imo lowers my threat.

at the moment - i am not able to ask mr robot, its kinda broken - bringing some error.
meaning my gear is prolly not proper reforged , had no time to do calculations by hand yet.

(one of) my problem is - threat -
many of our guild main DDs are 378++ equipped and , hell, those HC weapon scale insane - mad dps.
almost any fight the raid prepots, some fights use heroism/bloodlust right after pulling the boss (ie staghelm)
after a tankswap i can not pull enough threat. every now and then DDs have to stop or even worse - gets killed.

situations i get "the sweats"

ragnaros
warrior starts tanking - swap at 5 stacks, misdirection threat transfer is sure over but the buff still is active and my taunt only "takes" the aggro caused by the other tank so far, after the taunt he is still above me and my revenge not stacked. he produces 70K threat/s while i do like 20K in the beginning. hand is needed for melee DDs (damn those furies) or brainafk casters.

spark of rhyolith
we all know, wait some time then start DPS, yet some clown LOLPROCFACREROLL DDs manage to pull it, raid debuffs - gameover

shannox is pretty ok, yet sometimes aggro lost = wipe due mechanics. other fights in FL are easy due mechanics.
oldie but goldie sinestra - still pain in the ass everywhere - aggro nightmare during pull, big ad during p3 transistion due lack of hits landing only misdirection is too little vs healing aggro. and dont get me startet what those little whelps are trying to pull off with our healers.


im using 2 t12 + 2t11 for both bonus because according to WOL #1 dps is still crusader strike for me. giving up t11 10% would makes no sense to me. (iE hatchlings @alysrazor)

the rota i (try) to use is (pretty oldschool i think):

PULL: prepot golemblood - divine plea - avenging wrath - taunt - avengers shield - SOTR
ROTA: CS - judgement - CS - avengers shield - CS - SOTR

using PULL+ROTA differs because 9 of 10 avengers shield is on CD so instead of AS i use CONS, if in rota CONS on CD i use Holy Wrath

and here is the fish:
1 of 10 pulls - no misses - all ok, DD no procs - yes !! threat is mine.
2 of 10 pulls - no misses - LOLPROCFACEROLL DD is having LOLPROCFACEROLL - threat is "ours" healadins saving my ass with salvationspam.
5 of 10 pulls - CS miss, hoping to reach 3 stacks soon - no harm done, healadin having my bum saved once more.
2 of 10 pulls - CS misses, SOTR MISS - LOLPROCFACEROLL hits the dirt
1 of 10 pulls - CS misses, AS miss SOTR MISS - clusterfuck. wipe.

WHYYYY in gods name is tanking so stupid in the beginning, and so boring later on once we have gagzillion threat more than #2.

so, with my gear i can have 100% ctc with a single mastery trinket like TB or spidersilk.
using MANTLE OF PATIENCE andTHUNDERWALL BELT OF THE ROCKSLAB + dual mastery trinkets i ding 104%.

our healers are pretty good so i say 85-105% CTC makes no difference. the waste more mana on movement failures than me having 95 or 105% ctc.

there are many fireland items with expertise and hit.
isit time for me/tanks in FL HC to go for hit/expertise ?

is there anyone out there having the same issues - (in FL 25HC/normal - not ZA/ZG or other 5mans)
and how do you handle your raids threat / random miss
i am getting frustrated seeing how easy my prot warrior buddy is pulling of threat. even hes only using 359 weapon (no drop luck)
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Re: firelands (HC) issues

Postby leech2 » Fri Jul 29, 2011 6:58 am

something still bothers me
i just read between the lines in a blue post about some sword having wrong stats Masterwork (Elementium Deathblade changed to 3.5 Speed):

The reason for this confusion stemmed from a quirk in the way item hotfixes have to be applied, unfortunately. We hope to have the item's data completely corrected soon so others are not caught off guard by what the tooltip currently states.

Yes, obviously Blizzard needs to fix the tooltip on the pattern and the item if they're not going to just make it 3.80 like it ought to be. But, I think the real question ought to be:

Why isn't it 3.80 anyway?
At 3.80 speed, the weapon was over-performing relative to its cost and the ease with which it can be obtained.

[...] We wanted this weapon to be roughly on par with weapons from the previous tier, since it can be purchased from the Auction House. It wasn't intended to compete as much with current raid drops, as it felt weird that a strength-based DPS crafted weapon was more attractive than some of its counterparts.


does this point of view now also mean that the crafted mirror boots for the tank (#1 feet spot @digren's list) are not as good as those [391] Cracked Obsidian Stompers (Heroic) – Drop – Firelands: Lord Rhyolith (Heroic) – Dodge/Expertise
at least thats what blizzard was trying to design ?

is hit/expertise needed in 4.2 25HC ? are we blindly going for CTC then stam making the mistake were going to loose aggro or on bosses where u need buttloads of starting DPS (staghelm 25hc) ?

im just curious/pissed because i passed on those 391 boots yesterday (^^,) feels like a mistake
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Re: firelands (HC) issues

Postby Paoanii » Fri Jul 29, 2011 12:39 pm

Just a tip that I picked up from being in much the same situation: on the pull, arcane mages are your friends. If your arcane mage(s) are using mirror images on the pull like they should be, you can repeatedly taunt up to the mage's (usually fairly ridiculous) threat and when images ends, just taunt one last time and salv the mage. You will end up at close to twice the threat of the next highest dps assuming you timed it properly and as long as you can hold aggro off of the other dps in the group for at least 5-6 seconds, you wont have any threat issues. Bear in mind however that this DOES NOT work on Shannox because he is immune to taunt.

Aside from that, I don't see any problems with your opening rotation or general threat rotation at all, just keep in mind that you can get RNG-gibbed in your threat generation and in that situation you just need to be vocal to your dps that your threat wont be as high as normal. Dps pulling aggro is the dps's fault, not that tank's. All you need to do to not pull aggro as a dps is (gasp) stop pushing buttons for 3 seconds. Unless you're doing a fight like Baleroc Heroic, pulling aggro is going to be far more likely to cause a wipe than not dpsing for 3-4 seconds.

If you need a reference for whatever reason this is my armory: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/gurubashi/Paopally/advanced
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Re: firelands (HC) issues

Postby Tamarins » Fri Jul 29, 2011 3:59 pm

leech2 wrote:something still bothers me
i just read between the lines in a blue post about some sword having wrong stats Masterwork (Elementium Deathblade changed to 3.5 Speed):

The reason for this confusion stemmed from a quirk in the way item hotfixes have to be applied, unfortunately. We hope to have the item's data completely corrected soon so others are not caught off guard by what the tooltip currently states.

Yes, obviously Blizzard needs to fix the tooltip on the pattern and the item if they're not going to just make it 3.80 like it ought to be. But, I think the real question ought to be:

Why isn't it 3.80 anyway?
At 3.80 speed, the weapon was over-performing relative to its cost and the ease with which it can be obtained.

[...] We wanted this weapon to be roughly on par with weapons from the previous tier, since it can be purchased from the Auction House. It wasn't intended to compete as much with current raid drops, as it felt weird that a strength-based DPS crafted weapon was more attractive than some of its counterparts.


does this point of view now also mean that the crafted mirror boots for the tank (#1 feet spot @digren's list) are not as good as those [391] Cracked Obsidian Stompers (Heroic) – Drop – Firelands: Lord Rhyolith (Heroic) – Dodge/Expertise
at least thats what blizzard was trying to design ?

is hit/expertise needed in 4.2 25HC ? are we blindly going for CTC then stam making the mistake were going to loose aggro or on bosses where u need buttloads of starting DPS (staghelm 25hc) ?

im just curious/pissed because i passed on those 391 boots yesterday (^^,) feels like a mistake


There's a significant difference between the Molten Front 365 crafted items and the 378 crafted items. While both can be bought on the AH, the line about "cost and ease with which it can be obtained" doesn't really apply to the 378 items. 378 items are either extremely more costly or extremely more difficult to obtain, so it's reasonable for them to be as good or sometimes better than raid items.

As far as 378 Mirrored Boots vs. 391 Obsidium Stompers, I think it really comes down to a matter of preference. What's your gearing goal after 102.4%? If it's to start replacing excess dodge with avoidance, I think the crafted boots are your best option. But if you have any interest in gaining some extra stam or threat stats, I think the 391 drop will win out.
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Re: firelands (HC) issues

Postby leech2 » Mon Aug 01, 2011 6:23 am

tried 8 hit and whatever exp i could get.
its better and worse.

missing hardcap expertise still wastes parried CS.
down to 91% CTC from 100, little more dmgINC and more frustration about idiotic mechanics.

thank you parry - which should give a holy power charge afaicr parry still lands some dmg ie i did not miss so i want my HP.
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Re: firelands (HC) issues

Postby theckhd » Mon Aug 01, 2011 6:45 am

leech2 wrote:thank you parry - which should give a holy power charge afaicr parry still lands some dmg ie i did not miss so i want my HP.


No, it does not, and no, it should not.
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Re: firelands (HC) issues

Postby leech2 » Mon Aug 01, 2011 9:11 am

theckhd wrote:No, it does not, and no, it should not.


sad panda is sad
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Re: firelands (HC) issues

Postby Sur-Pseudo » Fri Aug 05, 2011 11:14 am

For threat you should aim for 26 expertise before worrying about hit...

I personally reforge for ~5% hit and 26 expertise... My guilds healers are strong... And we run with no hunters or Mages in 25 man... And only sometimes a rogue...

Our problem is our dps is too low... So the good pre-potting dps (2 warriors, 1 enhance shaman, 3 ret Pallies) are pushing hard at the start to make up for the weak bottom dps.. With no misdirect it blows :-/

On the plus side, with this setup and a dps trinket (like the base master and on use strength trinket from rep)... You can solo a hatchling and send another dps up or alysrazor
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Re: firelands (HC) issues

Postby RedAces » Sat Aug 06, 2011 1:46 am

I prefer wearing my normal tank gear and using a str-prepot - but for "easy" (nonheroic) farmcontent you can get away with a few dps-items mixed in.
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