[10HM] Shannox

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[10HM] Shannox

Postby Daenerys » Wed Jul 20, 2011 9:38 am

We spent some time on this last night and did not have a lot of luck. I watched several videos on youtube after to try to figure out why our tanks were having such a hard time resetting stacks, and came to the conclusion that perhaps we were just trying *too* hard to reset stacks. We tank Riplimb and Shannox about 80 yards apart and our dk tank pulls Riplimb away from the red circle when spear is about to be hurled, preferably into a trap if possible with Chains of Ice once the spear actually hits and Riplimb is going after it, but even though I kept trying to get him to move Riplimb even further, he swore he was doing the best he could, and our MT tank (druid) would still have to kite Shannox for quite a bit of time in order to reset his stacks, and when Riplimb was on the way back, our DK, whose stacks hadn't reset, would panic and run too far, causing enrage. Now that, of course, just needs to be fixed, and the tanks need to understand that STACKS are better than DEATH.

Regardless though, I keep seeing guides and videos where raiders state that resetting tank stacks is easy as long as the Riplimb tank freezes riplimb away from the spear location. That was not our impression last night, at all.

Of course getting the hang of Rageface kiting/freezing was also somewhat of a challenge, but that was getting better, whereas tanks were not. Do you have any tips? I have read the 25M HM Shannox thread but I haven't gotten enough from it to be of much use. I feel like a warrior tank would be pretty OP with leap/intervene etc. but we don't have that option. I think if we have any time to try Shannox again I might have to do some kind of fancy footwork with the spriest Life Gripping the Riplimb tank at the last minute to reset his stacks, but also emphasizing that only resetting every other spear is not the end of the world, with good use of cooldowns. Any other little helpful tricks? Thanks!
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Re: [10HM] Shannox

Postby Metherlance » Wed Jul 20, 2011 10:28 am

Edit: Better explained below. :p

Oh, and just a little tip, we found Alysrazor's "room" to be pretty optimal for killing Shannox. Don't have to worry about traps being behind rocks or anything.
Last edited by Metherlance on Wed Jul 20, 2011 3:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [10HM] Shannox

Postby RedAces » Wed Jul 20, 2011 11:52 am

You can kite him (almost) infinitely without riplimp reaching shannox. 10 Stacks are 100k Bleed damage per 3 seconds, this is massiv and not healable for a long time. Kite Shannox while riplimp is running to him (strafe sidewards!!) and stop when your debuff runs out and when your OT has 5 seconds left on his debuff. In order to have enough for this we clear the whole left and a little bit to the right, that's almost 5 times as big as alys' room. And you don't have any LoS issues with the rocks and things there (test it, you can heal through them!).
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Re: [10HM] Shannox

Postby Brosterr » Wed Jul 20, 2011 12:14 pm

^ What he said. I also didnt read anything you wrote about the Riplimb tank kiting the dog towards Shannox after the spear throw, makes life easier. Spear gets thrown, dog tank b-lines towards Shannox (if you have a lifegrip theres no reason to not use it on cd for this part), dog follows tank, turns back for spear, tank runs back to where spear landed, chains the dog, dog runs back again at Shannox, this time with the spear, Shannox tank runs in a wide circle doing the above mentioned strafe kite (which should be second nature) and can kite the dog indefinitely till his stacks fall off. You can literally, and i mean literally, drop stacks every time a spear is thrown, and the tanks never need to use an ice trap.

This is not necessary, but it is nice, but have your DK tank on the dog do what i said above, and while the dog is running to and fro have him pop ams and set off two immo traps. Also if you have a rogue it is nice to have him disarm every 14 second (i think thats the duration of the debuff he gets) just to keep the middle clear so rage doesnt accidentally get weary and cant be frozen.

Just make sure your tanks understand that dropping stacks truly is a joke, so they need to figure it out. There are multiple ways to do it, it just needs to be done.
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Re: [10HM] Shannox

Postby Daenerys » Wed Jul 20, 2011 1:53 pm

Thank you, that is helpful. We were kiting, but our strategy got too complicated, as we were kiting further rather than in a circle, and tanks were misjudging distances even though I cautioned each tank to try to be aware of where the dogs/Shannox were. and yes, the Riplimb tank is hoofing it towards Shannox before the spear is hurled, but somehow we were still having trouble. More kiting on the part of the main tank will likely alleviate the problem. Hopefully we have time to down him tonight.
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Re: [10HM] Shannox

Postby Arkesh » Wed Jul 20, 2011 4:45 pm

We had some range issues aswell with tanks going too far, but we mapped out 0, 80 and 100 yards with raid markers and used them for guidance.

Our first kill did use a prot warrior using heroic leap and other stuff for kiting, but for our second(tis very messy, thankfully tonight was almost spotless - our resto shaman stepped on a ice trap woohoo!) we had our DK just strafe-kite. There's a couple times Shannox gets his spear back when he didn't intend and it happened again tonight, maybe it was just lag or maybe he didn't kite soon enough. Even if it does happen it's not the end of the world, just get your tanks to pop a shieldwall or whatever when they get to around 5 stacks and it should be manageable.

Get your riplimb tank to keep an eye out for traps, once you get to around 60% you should be able to trap without the worry of taking a trap from rageface, and again at 30%. If they can trap riplimb just after the spear is thrown then get some distance between the tank and riplimb you get a good while to dps the boss with no interruptions (save rageface - unless he's trapped too).
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Re: [10HM] Shannox

Postby Daenerys » Thu Jul 21, 2011 9:31 am

We had a very clean kill on our second attempt yesterday. The fight was just ridiculously easy once tanks realized that yes, not resetting your stacks is not a big deal. I believe our MT only reset his stacks twice and even stepped on an immolation trap...... but it was really very easy from a healing point of view, other than running low on mana towards the end.

But after getting a late start, it was really cool when we had cleared the rest of the instance and switched to heroic and the instance reset.. along with all trash, and no Shannox. Spending another 20+ minutes having to respawn him was great. I know it happens occasionally, it did in the last tier as well, but I have to say that for heroic Shannox it's particularly rage-worthy because of the amount of trash you have to re-do just to get the boss to spawn.
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Re: [10HM] Shannox

Postby Klaudandus » Thu Sep 29, 2011 2:07 pm

Somehow, we're having issues slowing Riplimb once he heads out for the spear. We have had hunter use their traps to try to slow him down as well and doesnt work

and riplimb tank was also having issues with riplimb walking right over a crystal trap, but then trigger a fire trap just seconds later.
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Re: [10HM] Shannox

Postby fuzzygeek » Thu Sep 29, 2011 2:14 pm

We have our hunters conc shot when the thrown spear hits the ground. The slow may not take effect until the spear is actually in the ground, and Riplimb has started to retrieve it.

If Rip is "Wary" (debuff he gets after walking over a fire trap) I don't believe it sets off the crystal traps, but it may still trigger a fire trap and reset the timer on his Wary debuff. I'm not certain, but that's the only thing I can think of.
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Re: [10HM] Shannox

Postby Klaudandus » Thu Sep 29, 2011 2:23 pm

riplimb tank claims he wasnt wary, but became wary after skipping over the crystal and hitting immolation one

hunter claims hitting conc shot on riplimb but riplimb seems to be unaffected... which makes me wonder if he's hitting him with conc shot so often he got diminishing returns on it.
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Re: [10HM] Shannox

Postby fuzzygeek » Thu Sep 29, 2011 2:35 pm

I would guess that it is a timing issue, since Riplimb is only slowable when he's dicking around with the spear. DR from getting spammed with slows when he's immune might also be it, but hopefully you don't have random people trying to slow him constantly.

No way to tell with the Wary thing except to check the logs. The buff/debuff display and mechanics are so horrible I wouldn't blame someone for not seeing something buried in the mess.
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Re: [10HM] Shannox

Postby Klaudandus » Thu Sep 29, 2011 2:52 pm

also, we're gonna be doing it in alysrazor's -- but i got a question, i'm supposed to kite him around the edge, right?

is that how its supposed to be kited?
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Re: [10HM] Shannox

Postby maurok » Thu Sep 29, 2011 10:59 pm

Riplimp keeps sort of jumping towards shannox whe he gets close, so you need to kite doing a circle so you take him from the jump path always... if you get the angle right, you can even kite in a small circle (10~15y radius)... it is a little harder but doable. I did that once to pick on my rogue, he as complaining about me kiting too much, than I kited him around him for at least 20s =]

we tank him on alys room as well, what worked for us was to put 4 marks in a square (~50y betweeen marks), when I start tanking on one mark and rip's tank stay on the mark on my left. when he throws the spear, rip tank run towards my mark and I'll kite shannox to the next mark on my right (so when I stop, rip's tank is still on the same distance). If I need to kite for a longer period, I keep doing a circle around the mark where I'll stop for a few more seconds.
The rest of the raid tries do stays "out of the square", and close to the mark where I'm tanking shannox... when we freeze rageface, we go across the square (we run on an diagonal of the square). at this point rip's tank we'll be now on my left and I'll kite the other way.

It sounds a little confusing (and my poor english doesn't help either), but the great advantage for my group was how predictable were our movement to the healers (both when I'm kiting, or when we are running from a trapped rageface), it's nice to see the raid moving together and knowing what's going to happen next beforehand =]
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Re: [10HM] Shannox

Postby Klaudandus » Mon Oct 10, 2011 7:48 pm

I seem to be unable to kite shannox enough for the bleed/riplimb stacks to drop ...
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Re: [10HM] Shannox

Postby Kishandra » Mon Oct 10, 2011 11:06 pm

The trick is to kite in a wide, smooth circle. The wider the easier, demonstrated here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MYjHfpHMPUw

Do not twitch, do not let go of your strafe key, do not pause. Stop only when your stacks (and/or the riplimb tank's stacks) have fallen.

There is no diminishing return on snares in pve, the only DR in pve are stuns and taunts. Furthermore, snares in this fight are more or less pointless, it doesn't matter if riplimb has a +10000% speed boost, the circle kite takes advantage of server/client lag to continuously induce gaps in riplimb and shannox's positions.
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