[25N] Majordomo Staghelm

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[25N] Majordomo Staghelm

Postby fuzzygeek » Mon Jul 18, 2011 11:48 am

So I recognize that this fight will vary widely from raid to raid. I am curious as to:

1) how many healers people bring
2) how many stacks people transition at
3) approx boss % per phase

We did most of our pulls last night with 7 healers, transitioning at 8/7/5/7/5 ... not that we ever got to a clean 3rd scorp phase. Healing corps was 2 druids, 1 disc, 2 holy priest, 1 resto sham, 1 holy paladin.

I'm wondering if we just have low healer throughput or if we're doing something else wrong, because our healers are having a hell of a time topping us up by the 5th slash, which is when our best controlled pulls went awry. We also use just 2 resto druid tranqs at 5 and 7 stacks in S1, saving the majority of major raid CDs (PWB/DG) for the 2nd scorp phase (S2). We're generally at or around the 50% mark at the end of the 2nd scorp phase, which strikes me as being a little low.

I'm also not entirely sure how to utilize Divine Hymn in this fight as a RCD -- any suggestions?

I reviewed the tankspot and l2r videos, which have 6 and 6-7 healers. Tankspot transitions around 6+ stacks, l2r transitioned at 12-13 (!) stacks.

What have people had success with?
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Re: [25N] Majordomo Staghelm

Postby inthedrops » Mon Jul 18, 2011 12:57 pm

For us, we're using 7 healers. We quickly learned it gets brutal at 8 stacks. We do a 7/6 (scorp/cat) rotation until boss is dead.

On our second kill, we start in scorpion phase and we ended up with 4 scorpion phases and 3 cat phases with an 8:01 kill. I looked at the logs and it looks like we had him somewhere between 50 and 55% health at the end of the second scorpion phase.

When his adrenaline increases, it gets to the point where 10 second cooldowns can overlap into two Flame Scyths so make sure to take advantage of the timing there:

(Rough estimates)
1st: ##.#
2nd: 13.5
3rd: 11.0
4th: 8.5
5th: 7.5
6th: 7.0
7th: 6.0

You probably are but maybe check with your raid to make sure they're trying to do this.
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Re: [25N] Majordomo Staghelm

Postby warden » Mon Jul 18, 2011 2:27 pm

We're running 7 healers IIRC, but we're doing our first transition at 10 or 11; He's usually at or below 70% by the first cat phase. We run a pretty heavy CD rotation, healing through 1-3, and then going

4: Warrior Cry
5: AM
6: AM
7: AM
8: Spirit Link
9: Barrier
10: Same Barrier still up
11: Anti-magic Zone

We're usually running 2-3 Holy Pallies, 1 resto sham, 1-2 disc priests, and 1 resto druid. If we're only doing 2 holy pallies, we'll have another spirit link or barrier. We also make pretty liberal use of 2 boomkin and 1 resto tranq and the prot warrior's cry if needed.

Cat phase we run in on 6 each time.

Second scorpion phase, we start the CD rotation on 2 or 3 I think, re-using any 2 minute cooldowns and any unused 3 minute ones. Follow this by another cat phase, still running in at 6 (as soon as the flaming mushrooms drop), and all our first-scorp cooldowns are back up to run the rotation as needed.

I'm slightly fuzzy on this posting from work and not having access to WoL, but our logs should be publicly viewable if you want to check him out. We one-shotted him pretty easily last night, so that might be a good one to look at.
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Re: [25N] Majordomo Staghelm

Postby exiledknight » Mon Jul 18, 2011 6:43 pm

Run 7 healers, push 13 stacks the first phase
After #3 we lust
5- AM
6- AM
7- Raid Wall
8&9- PWB
10&11- PWB
12- AMZ
13-AMZ

Usually just around 65-68% first transition, we go to 5 on the cat phases
2nd scorpion we use the two AMs for the 3rd and 4th AMZ for the 5th and spread then. 3 scorpion we go through all our CDs again but start them at the 2nd one
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Re: [25N] Majordomo Staghelm

Postby baff » Tue Jul 19, 2011 5:46 am

AD can be used to soak a flame scyth (turn boss around, pop AD, profit). On the other hand, it eats right through divine shield and gs (if you don't have enough cds up).

EDIT: corrected due to following conversation.
Last edited by baff on Wed Jul 20, 2011 10:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [25N] Majordomo Staghelm

Postby baleogthefierce » Tue Jul 19, 2011 7:03 am

baff wrote:AD can be used to soak a flame scyth (turn boss around, pop AD, profit). On the other hand, it eats right through divine shield and gs.


Guardian Spirit does not work unless you add some external cooldowns on top of it since it is based on your health and is not a saves-you-from-death mechanic like Ardent Defender.

Divine Shield still worked for me this week, can anyone else confirm/deny that it still prevents scythe damage?
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Re: [25N] Majordomo Staghelm

Postby baff » Tue Jul 19, 2011 10:50 pm

I most definitively died with divine shield up on Monday night from scythe damage.

gs used together with tons of CDs on a tank didn't work for us. I didn't spend a lot of times in the logs trying to see what happened, so there might be some error here - especially is you say it works for you (I just think it might be too much damage at some point).
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Re: [25N] Majordomo Staghelm

Postby Forgrim » Wed Jul 20, 2011 4:57 am

I've used AD to soak Flame scythes before, but i've had 2 deaths where the flame scythe is followed up by a melee hit that kills me, and i'm talking .2 seconds. I generally hover over my LoH to get up really quickly but i didn't have enough reaction time before it killed me. Anyone else die to this? mind you before i died to flame scythe + melee, i had several attempts where AD worked perfectly.
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Re: [25N] Majordomo Staghelm

Postby Chicken » Wed Jul 20, 2011 4:58 am

baff wrote:I most definitively died with divine shield up on Monday night from scythe damage.

gs used together with tons of CDs on a tank didn't work for us. I didn't spend a lot of times in the logs trying to see what happened, so there might be some error here - especially is you say it works for you (I just think it might be too much damage at some point).
Guardian spirit is unlikely to ever work on 25-man, but can work on 10-man. Guardian spirit basically saves you from a killing blow of up to twice your maximum health in damage. On 25-man normal, flame scythe does 2.25 million damage before being split. In comparison on 10-man normal, flame scythe does 750k damage before being split. So on 10-man normal, guardian of ancient kings would bring that down to 375k, which is likely less than twice your maximum health. On 25-man normal, flame scythe would still be doing 1.125 million damage even with guardian of ancient kings up, which is still a lot more than twice your maximum health.
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Re: [25N] Majordomo Staghelm

Postby Treck » Wed Jul 20, 2011 5:34 am

Chicken wrote:Guardian spirit is unlikely to ever work on 25-man, but can work on 10-man. Guardian spirit basically saves you from a killing blow of up to twice your maximum health in damage. On 25-man normal, flame scythe does 2.25 million damage before being split. In comparison on 10-man normal, flame scythe does 750k damage before being split. So on 10-man normal, guardian of ancient kings would bring that down to 375k, which is likely less than twice your maximum health. On 25-man normal, flame scythe would still be doing 1.125 million damage even with guardian of ancient kings up, which is still a lot more than twice your maximum health.

GS works fine in 25man, you just have to stack it with other CDs.
Guardian, DP (glyphed) and TB trinket with GS works fine.
Using shadowpriests to soak is very doable aswell, 2shadowpriests bring the damage down to about 1/3rd, so they replace guardian and is even more effective, then TB trinket and DP again for thatone. Then obviously AD for every 2nd scorpion phase.
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Re: [25N] Majordomo Staghelm

Postby Chicken » Wed Jul 20, 2011 8:09 am

I should probably have left out the 'ever'. What I was aiming for is "You might be able to manage it with a lot of cooldowns stacked on top of each other, but I doubt that's really worth it". Considering I only do 10-mans you should take that with a grain of salt though.
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Re: [25N] Majordomo Staghelm

Postby Treck » Wed Jul 20, 2011 8:56 am

Its the strat were using for 25man heroic ^^ so it works on 25man normal aswell, altho i gotta say, theres not much reason to go overboard with it on normalmode :P
The whole reason to do it on hc is to avoid concentration to fall off, its not even there in normalmode, so theres little point in doing it.
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Re: [25N] Majordomo Staghelm

Postby fuzzygeek » Mon Jul 25, 2011 11:09 am

Also, this fight is several orders of magnitude simpler in 10m and is stupidly easy. If a 25m raiding guild is having issues with this fight, just break into two 10s and get it over with.
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Re: [25N] Majordomo Staghelm

Postby Chronos » Tue Aug 30, 2011 7:04 am

Noticed no updates to this post for a while...
1) My main question is could a leaping flames only strategy trivialize this fight on 25N like it does in 10HM? Considering how much more difficult this fight is compared to N10 man, do you think a leaping flames only strategy (involving a pali tank eating 1-3 scythes at the start perhaps) 3-7-0-7-0-7-0 .. etc would be easier in 25N than a healer based scorp 6 scythes strategy 10-7-6-7-6-7? Could drop 2-3 heals and nuke him. My concerns are the dps wouldn't be there to prevent fury from stacking up too much and leaping flames starts 2-3 shotting people, or the leaping flames persisting on the ground for too long (time on that?)

2) Think stacking on one side to group orbs together for 3-4 players to soak is also worth it in 25N?

3) Does HoProtection still prevent Seed application? Thought it was only Divine Shield and Ice Block, haven't tested HoP.

I know both those strategies arose from the need to keep concentration at max in the heroic version, but after hearing so many HM 10 man guilds cleaning him up so easily with a leaping flames 2 healer focused strategy, I was wondering if this would make the fight "several orders of magnitude" easier on 25N...

We're not a progression guild, but we cleared 5/7 in one night in 25's. As it stands we do a 8-7-5-7-5-7dead strategy for 10N in each of our 10 man groups which is very easy. Replicating something similar on 25's is tough for us to handle, too much damage from scythes, cd's complicated for us to execute, orbs are chaotic. Our raid's DPS/heals isn't amazing. We did only use 6 healers in these logs when we needed 7.
First and only 25 man log:
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/gcvl6lt9ld43iicf/sum/damageDone/?enc=bosses&boss=52571

I'd like to try a leaping flames only on 10N with 2 heals next week and see how it works out.

Thanks for your thoughts or input,
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Re: [25N] Majordomo Staghelm

Postby Hrobertgar » Tue Aug 30, 2011 7:42 am

I think going zero scythes is counter productive, because the amount of time the first scythe takes is a lot and you may as well get benefit from that, otherwise you would probably need an extra cycle or two to make up for the short scorp phases. Minimizing scorp phases in heroic works only because of concentration. Using raid CDs your healers should be able to cover 3-4 scythes and Tank CDs should allow him to solo eat 1-2 per scorp phase as well. As long as you are taking more than like 1 scythe, then your 2min raid CDs shuold be up for every scorp phase, while you can plan your 3min Ds. Keep in mind, that a Pally tank Ardent Defender does work to solo soak a flame scythe. Its just that it is a 3min CD and leaves the tank at 15% health so he would need some HoTs rolling on him to survive afterwards.

When I tank it in 10m-N we go 8-6-5-6-5-kill on 3rd kitty. We use War-shout for 6, DK-shell for 7 and Pally-AM for 8. For the seed phase We coordinate Raid CDs for scythes My divine Guardian for 2, Shout for 3, and Aura Mastery for 4; then I use Ardent Defender to eat scythe 5, then break. For third scorp phase we go shout for 3rd, shell for 4th and Aura for 5th. In a 25m raid you should have plenty of raid CDs and external tank CDs to go around to help with scorp phase, and are much more likely to have access to guardian spirit and barrier or even multiple of some CDs.

You can also encourage people to use their own survival CDs, like glyphed Divine Prot for all pallys.
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