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[10] Alysrazor

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Re: [10] Alysrazor

Postby frontallobe » Mon Jul 18, 2011 6:44 am

Couple additional helpful add tanking tips
==========================================
6% hit - 24 expertise is a must (for most non heroic tanks)
Glyph for focused shield
Hit food / expertise elixers are nice
You can Divine Shield if you have no worms up - you will not lose threat

Because it can be quite disorienting while tanking these adds the other tank and I split the room with raid marker lights. 2 worms spawn on his side and 2 on my side. This way we're not stealing from each other. It helps more than it should tbh.. I think we're directionally challenged.
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Re: [10] Alysrazor

Postby Chicken » Mon Jul 18, 2011 7:21 am

It is a rather disorienting fight honestly. Even if you're doing the "follow a tornado, if a tornado passes you by follow that tornado" strategy you still end up moving around a bit. There's no shame in using the tools available to you to make that easier to keep up with.
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Re: [10] Alysrazor

Postby Epimer » Mon Jul 18, 2011 3:16 pm

We killed it tonight, and for reference I was doing the "clear every Hungry stack ASAP and GaNK through one Tantrum per phase" method, and my co-tank only used worms to clear Tantrum, not Hungry. We both had no trouble surviving, and the only problem that arose was when a worm was left up in the Tornado phase due to him having a lucky run of no Tantrums, which our Moonkin promptly ran into while dodging tornadoes /facepalm But that would be easily fixable in future.
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Re: [10] Alysrazor

Postby Ghastard » Wed Jul 20, 2011 5:18 am

Due to guild numbers, I have been healing since mid t11. For Alys, we split our raid into 2 groups, with 2 dps per druid. The tanks do the hit/expert gearing and try to kill their own add. We run 3 heals for most of the fights, until we feel secure in 2 healing. For the time being we run Druid / DK tanks. 1 healer per tank, and 3rd heals either picks a side, or helps interrupts. We've found that the only thing we really wipe to are the tornadoes, so once u get the pattern down she's pretty easy on normal. As heals, you don't have to worry as much about blowing all ur mana to keep your side's tank alive, you will get it all back during burnout.

A lil LOL moment: MT discovered that during tornado phase, if u touch the outter walls....you die.
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Re: [10] Alysrazor

Postby Klaudandus » Mon Jul 25, 2011 5:53 am

It feels like me and my guild are a bit of slow learners on this fight. We pulled Alysrazor on thursday for an hour and a half and we only got to phase 4 twice. And all of the disorientation during phase 2 with me and the other tank so far away from the channelers that she got her energy back in no time.
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Re: [10] Alysrazor

Postby Epimer » Mon Jul 25, 2011 6:14 am

Klaudandus wrote:And all of the disorientation during phase 2 with me and the other tank so far away from the channelers that she got her energy back in no time.


Ground markers.

We have one in the middle, and one on either side. The raid is split into "blue" and "yellow" teams, so people know where they should be. We arrange that for the burn part Alysrazor will be faced towards the blue side so no-one eats a cleave (although someone still managed last night), and the blue and yellow markers are set where the channelers spawn. Also helps in making sure that one tank doesn't steal the other's worms. Basically having a clear, arbitrary, visual marker helps with a lot of different things.

I was surprised when we got our first kill, because our previous night had been a complete mess. I distinctly remember thinking on the pull of our kill attempt "Great, this is going to be one of those fights where I've learned it and now I've got another 10 wipes before everyone else gets it" and I was proved totally wrong and felt like an arsehole :) Similarly, our repeat kill yesterday felt extremely controlled, and would have been a one-shot had we not sent up a new person to do the air phase bit and they needed a few attempts to learn the ropes there.

So yeah, keep plugging away and don't get disconsolate about it. For us there seemed to be a tipping point where everyone grasped what they should have been doing just that little bit better and there was a binary switch from chaotic wipes to clean execution, with no major change in approach.
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Re: [10] Alysrazor

Postby Tebin » Mon Jul 25, 2011 6:52 am

For those who have done this fight, should the birds from p1 be dead by p2? Should dps be putting in a lot of damage to take them down, or should they be mostly dead just from tank DPS?
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Re: [10] Alysrazor

Postby frontallobe » Mon Jul 25, 2011 6:59 am

Tebin wrote:For those who have done this fight, should the birds from p1 be dead by p2? Should dps be putting in a lot of damage to take them down, or should they be mostly dead just from tank DPS?


If you reforge / flask / and swap out a few pieces you can kill them yourself with dps helping if they can. Yes, they need to be dead by P2. I swapped in a friendly dps cloak (378) and license to slay (jp trinket now) and went with 6% hit and 24 expertise reforging. Also did a STR flask instead of stammy. This put me at a max of 195k dps at one point and a sustained 130kish throughout the fight.

Also if you catch a tantrum and your worms are down make sure you divine shield. You don't lose aggro and you can just sit through it. Pally ftw.
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Re: [10] Alysrazor

Postby frontallobe » Mon Jul 25, 2011 7:01 am

Quick tip with raid markers

Use them to split the room in the middle. (all 5 markers) this way you have two worms and the other tank has two worms. No getting lost and going for the same worm. It also helps you interrupter dps to make it back over to the right side when she gets up from p3/p4? .. It helped us at least. wall of lights ftw.
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Re: [10] Alysrazor

Postby Epimer » Mon Jul 25, 2011 7:01 am

Tebin wrote:For those who have done this fight, should the birds from p1 be dead by p2? Should dps be putting in a lot of damage to take them down, or should they be mostly dead just from tank DPS?


Yes, the birds should be dead by that point, although as far as I know there's no additional penalty other than it being a pain to dodge tornados while trying to kill it off, and no way to remove Tantrums etc.

You can do at least ~93% of the Hatchling's health yourself in regular tank gear without any gimmicks (I even forgot to switch in the Focused Shield glyph last night). We have DPS smack it if it's nearby when they're moving between Initiates, and to finish it off after the final set of Initiates is dead.
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Re: [10] Alysrazor

Postby mclem » Mon Aug 08, 2011 6:55 pm

We've had our first day of full attempts on Alysrazor with a group specifically crafted for it today, but a couple of issues have cropped up; the first is a real gamebreaker for us, the second is something that bothers me but isn't crippling us.

First, my warrior cotank is having real difficulty with surviving on the adds. It's usually a combination of Gushing Wound and Tantrum which does for him. I've suggested that he plans more towards coordinating tantrums with the worms (I, on the other hand, am generally mopping up the worms and then standing still to maximise DPS and not have to worry about kiting issues), but it doesn't seem to have done any good. I'm at something at a loss as to what the problem could be - we've tried exchanging healers to no avail.

Second, I'm mildly worried about my own DPS. Not massively so - the adds go down in time - but I'm not dealing the 100k+ numbers spoken of here, I'm generally more in the 80k ballpark. Certainly a little more leeway on the adds dying would be reassuring. As it stands my only concession to a damage-based set is to take a strength flask. I don't know if there's anything inherently wrong with my rotation, or if I'm just not consistent enough at outputting it (one problem I do have is not realising when I've passed the Hammer of Wrath threshold, I know that one)

The latter's less important, I'm most curious about my warrior buddy and making sure he stays alive, 'cause him being flattened is the cause of the majority of wipes at the moment.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-2ugiesht1drpsgiw/ is the evening's run, anyhow. I'm Matthias, my warrior friend is Aaryki.
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Re: [10] Alysrazor

Postby Calleana » Tue Aug 09, 2011 5:25 am

I think this fight is just quite hard, my 10m guild have been wiping on it for about 2 weeks (2 raids a night and about 1 hour or 1 1/2 hour on the fight each night). No other fight in firelands so far has taken this long to crack but I think we are slowly getting there. Best attempt so far is 23%.

The key seems to be getting as many as possible through each phase, we switched to 2 healers and sent 2 DPS in the air for ten man but bring one of those DPS down to help interrupt if we've lost any interruptors. Our best try got most through to the second P1 before tank death and a lost bird made us go squish.

In terms of squishiness gushing wound falls off if you let the tank go below 50% health, so it should be that it comes on your healers let your health drop a bit and then heal you back up again. It looks like you took significantly less of your damage from gushing wound, so that might help.

DPS wise it depends how much time your actual DPS help with the birds, if they have time between spawns they may be attacking yours and reducing the amount of damage you have to get through. If you're getting the bird down by P1 I wouldn't worry about the numbers.
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Re: [10] Alysrazor

Postby fafhrd » Tue Aug 09, 2011 7:54 am

mclem wrote:Second, I'm mildly worried about my own DPS. Not massively so - the adds go down in time - but I'm not dealing the 100k+ numbers spoken of here, I'm generally more in the 80k ballpark. Certainly a little more leeway on the adds dying would be reassuring. As it stands my only concession to a damage-based set is to take a strength flask. I don't know if there's anything inherently wrong with my rotation, or if I'm just not consistent enough at outputting it (one problem I do have is not realising when I've passed the Hammer of Wrath threshold, I know that one)


If the adds go down in time, there's not much else you can do - they have a fixed amount of health, and fixed spawn times - whether you kill them 20s before tornadoes spawn or 30s after tornadoes spawn, your effective DPS to them is the same over the course of the fight, and that's what will show up on WoL (recount may be different, especially for a wipe). If more of your DPSers help kill the add, you will count for less of the damage done to it, and your DPS will go down - but the add will die quicker. It is very plausible for you to see the add dying faster every week but your tank DPS dropping every week, simply because with more gear your actual DPS are pumping more damage into the add, reducing the damage you have available to do to it.
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Re: [10] Alysrazor

Postby Hrobertgar » Tue Aug 09, 2011 12:14 pm

First, my warrior cotank is having real difficulty with surviving on the adds. It's usually a combination of Gushing Wound and Tantrum which does for him. I've suggested that he plans more towards coordinating tantrums with the worms (I, on the other hand, am generally mopping up the worms and then standing still to maximise DPS and not have to worry about kiting issues), but it doesn't seem to have done any good. I'm at something at a loss as to what the problem could be - we've tried exchanging healers to no avail.


Your warrior co-tank prolly needs to be aware of the location of the worms at all times. #1 when tantrum omes, try to use a worm soon, there are two worms per side, you almost never have to eat a tantrum. Second, stay out of worm fire breath, even with a CD up, tantrum + worm fire = bad. When I tank it, i try to back up so the worm is about 5 yards behind me, outside the chicken's hitbox, when he tantrums he will surge forward and eat the worm, then I position for the next worm, avoiding the fire as needed. Treck mentioned that the spot roughly in between the two worms on each side is relatively safe from fire if you are carefull about it. I generally have to pop a small cooldown and eat the 4rd tantrum just before the second set of worms pop up. My co-tank has been designated to take Alys for the burn once she hits 50% energy so I sometimes burn my big CD if I want a little more margin, but I always pop Hand of Sac on the other tank when she nears full power to make the healing easier.

For some reason my co-tank eats 1 worm then hides by the entrance till the next set spawns, so I usually use his second worm as my third and then go back to my two for the respawn. It would prolly be better for him to use it himself and put less strain on the healers, but we manage it fine.

It is usually pretty obvious when a tank eats a tantrum, their health will go from full to very low in like 2 ticks. If your co-tank has to eat a tantrum he can call out on vent maybe to prepare the healers for it, and again consider using a cD as tantrum only lasts like 10secs, then the chicken will become tired and return to normal.


Second, I'm mildly worried about my own DPS. Not massively so - the adds go down in time - but I'm not dealing the 100k+ numbers spoken of here, I'm generally more in the 80k ballpark. Certainly a little more leeway on the adds dying would be reassuring. As it stands my only concession to a damage-based set is to take a strength flask. I don't know if there's anything inherently wrong with my rotation, or if I'm just not consistent enough at outputting it (one problem I do have is not realising when I've passed the Hammer of Wrath threshold, I know that one)


I don't like to mess with the chickens once the tornadoes spawn, but all you can really do is put on a couple pieces of hit/expertise gear and maybe a Str trinket. Unless you are eating multiple tantrums you can sacrifice a modest amount of survivability to increase your output. These are lvl 87 elites and require 6% hit & 26 expertise to be fully capped, and that will increase your dps noticeably. If your chicken is already going down at a comfortable time vis-a-vis tornadoes, then don't worry about it.
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Re: [10] Alysrazor

Postby Lathdari » Fri Sep 09, 2011 8:16 am

I'm a bit confused by the geography of this fight in phase 1. I understand that there should be a group of 4 players assigned to each 'side': a tank to pick up the hatchling, two dps to interrupt and take down the initiate and a healer. However, my cotank and I seemed to have differing ideas of where each 'side' was: I thought I was taking the lava worms on the West side, while he got the ones on the East side, but he thought we were splitting North and South. Similarly, we were splitting our dps East and West: I've seen from various comments that there's a right and wrong orientation for the dps, but I'm not sure which is which. It certainly seems that for ease of healing, we should be splitting dps and tanking in the same way. There's a sketch of the layout at http://www.icy-veins.com/alysrazor-detailed-strategy, but it doesn't have an orientation marked, so I'm not sure how it fits on the ground.

Looking more carefully, it seems to me that the boss flies from NE to SW across the room. So is the right answer in fact that Icy Veins' sketch fits diagonally across the room, so one group should stay on the NW side and the other on the SE side?

Also, we're having real difficulties with the damage from Fieroblast. Partly I think this is a problem with co-ordinating interrupts, but also I think that they're dying too slowly, and so stacking too many stacks of Fire It Up! How quickly do they die for other groups? Before the fourth Fieroblast cast?
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