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4 Piece Tier 12 vs Offset Pieces

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4 Piece Tier 12 vs Offset Pieces

Postby Caeles » Fri Jul 01, 2011 5:41 am

So, i'm looking at the 4 piece, and am adequately unimpressed (as I was during ICC where the 4 piece was a near identical carbon copy only tied to Divine Plea instead of Divine Protection). In fact, i'd wager to say that the 10% Divine Plea implementation from ICC days was a better implementation than the current version is it is directly tied to being activated AFTER divine protection wears off, which makes it even less reliable, and sort of a "besides the point" bonus. Personally, i'm using divine protection for the up front damage mitigation, be it physical + magic, or as a straight up heavy magic damage CD.


Now, even if we used divine protection on cooldown, which we typically don't, 12% parry over 10 seconds, once per minute only really gives you, on average, 2% avoidance over the entire duration of a fight.

Comparing that to the comparable options.

The Tier helm and shoulders have threat stats, and there are options that have 2 survivability stats on them. As well, there is a non-tier chest piece that provides mastery/dodge instead of the tier's dodge/parry combination.

What my overall question is, what are the other tanks thinking in this regard? Are you still going straight for 4 piece tier 12, or are you actively looking at the offset pieces that could potentially provide better overall damage mitigation than the 3 tier pieces in question?

I've provided links to all the items I'm talking about below.


http://www.wowhead.com/item=71405 - Carapace of Imbibed Flame vs http://www.wowhead.com/item=71522 - Immolation Chestguard

http://www.wowhead.com/item=71612 - Pauldrons of Roaring Flame (Remember, the hit is a tooltip bug, this value is actually mastery) vs http://www.wowhead.com/item=71526 - Immolation Shoulderguards

and lastly http://www.wowhead.com/item=71459 - Helm of Blazing Glory vs http://www.wowhead.com/item=71524 - Immolation Faceguard
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Re: 4 Piece Tier 12 vs Offset Pieces

Postby Soloz » Sun Jul 03, 2011 4:31 pm

I agree with you for the most part, but i believe the tier shoulders are a tad better due to the nearly 200+ mastery on it, but then again the rag shoulders may actually be better since we will be hitting the block cap fairly easily with firelands loot, will have to test it out, for now though I'll be going for legs/hands/shoulder tier and will end up buying the chest piece sooner or later
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Re: 4 Piece Tier 12 vs Offset Pieces

Postby Arincia » Mon Jul 04, 2011 3:32 pm

The rag shoulders got changed to dodge/hit instead of being dodge/mastery. That said it probably pushes tier shoulders into bis given the natural mastery on them compared to the other 2 shoulder options.
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Re: 4 Piece Tier 12 vs Offset Pieces

Postby Treck » Mon Jul 04, 2011 3:43 pm

Actually, the raggy shoulders are still Dodge/mastery, making them really good.
It says hit, but it gives no hit at all, it does give 142 mastery tho.
(OP did point this out)
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Re: 4 Piece Tier 12 vs Offset Pieces

Postby Selcouth » Sun Jul 10, 2011 2:28 pm

Caeles wrote:What my overall question is, what are the other tanks thinking in this regard? Are you still going straight for 4 piece tier 12, or are you actively looking at the offset pieces that could potentially provide better overall damage mitigation than the 3 tier pieces in question?


I am personally aiming for only 2 tier pieces.

http://www.wowhead.com/item=71459
http://www.wowhead.com/item=71526
http://www.wowhead.com/item=71405
http://www.wowhead.com/item=71458#comments
http://www.wowhead.com/item=71525
If im saying weird things correct me PLEASE. I`m from Germany and don`t know it better.^^
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Re: 4 Piece Tier 12 vs Offset Pieces

Postby Treck » Sun Jul 10, 2011 2:37 pm

The Ragnaros shoulders were changed back to Dodge/mastery btw.
They are pretty nice :P
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Re: 4 Piece Tier 12 vs Offset Pieces

Postby Selcouth » Sun Jul 10, 2011 3:20 pm

Yeah, i know.

http://www.wowhead.com/item=71526 vs. http://www.wowhead.com/item=71612

- 29 Stamina
- 31 Strength
+239 Mastery
-281 Dodge
+120 Hit

I gain 239 Mastery in change for 281 Dodge and some Stam/Str. It isn`t the best trade i`ve ever made but i will use the tier shoulders to reach the 102,4%
If im saying weird things correct me PLEASE. I`m from Germany and don`t know it better.^^
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Re: 4 Piece Tier 12 vs Offset Pieces

Postby Treck » Sun Jul 10, 2011 4:50 pm

Selcouth wrote:http://www.wowhead.com/item=71526 vs. http://www.wowhead.com/item=71612

- 29 Stamina
- 31 Strength
+239 Mastery
-281 Dodge
+120 Hit

I gain 239 Mastery in change for 281 Dodge and some Stam/Str. It isn`t the best trade i`ve ever made but i will use the tier shoulders to reach the 102,4%

Wait what?
How is your math checking out?

322-163=159mastery
351 dodge
and 200 hit.
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Re: 4 Piece Tier 12 vs Offset Pieces

Postby Selcouth » Sun Jul 10, 2011 9:55 pm

OMFG it was rly late last night! 80 Hit reforged to Dodge. I think i added the reforged 80 stats twice to dodge AND to mastery

- 29 Stamina
- 31 Strength
+159 Mastery
-281 Dodge
+120 Hit

159 mastery rating against 281 dodge rating.

159 mastery rating gives approximately ~ 1,99% block chance
281 dodge rating (as total dodge rating) gives 1.5901% dodge chance. With our other items considered even less...

Still the same result and sorry for the trouble with my recent post.
If im saying weird things correct me PLEASE. I`m from Germany and don`t know it better.^^
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Re: 4 Piece Tier 12 vs Offset Pieces

Postby Caeles » Mon Jul 11, 2011 8:55 am

You also need to consider the added benefit of being able to use a better itemized piece of gear if you aren't going for 4 piece.

So for instance, let's say you decide to use the rag shoulders because they are higher ilvl, and better itemized than the tier shoulders, and if you have to take a threat stat, you'd take expertise over hit because it's the superior stat.


So you should compare the tier helm vs the off-set helm

and also the tier chest, vs the off-set chest.
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Re: 4 Piece Tier 12 vs Offset Pieces

Postby Selcouth » Mon Jul 11, 2011 12:25 pm

Caeles wrote:You also need to consider the added benefit of being able to use a better itemized piece of gear if you aren't going for 4 piece.

So for instance, let's say you decide to use the rag shoulders because they are higher ilvl, and better itemized than the tier shoulders, and if you have to take a threat stat, you'd take expertise over hit because it's the superior stat.


So you should compare the tier helm vs the off-set helm

and also the tier chest, vs the off-set chest.


viewtopic.php?f=3&t=29732

I simply dont follow his advice to take the weaker tier chest and handguards for 4p bonus.
If im saying weird things correct me PLEASE. I`m from Germany and don`t know it better.^^
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Re: 4 Piece Tier 12 vs Offset Pieces

Postby inthedrops » Tue Jul 12, 2011 5:57 am

Well, one factor for me is that this early on I like to see DPS and healing get their tier pieces. I just try to grab whatever tank drops come my way, and then use JP for the first couple tier pieces. I usually start filling in my Tier pieces once all the locks and priests have a couple.

So on that aspect, it actually makes my gearing choices easier......which is to take what I get. Gear still seems less important for tanks than it's ever been. If the 4 piece bonus was the extra duration on Guardian, I'd probably try to get them sooner. 12% parry or whatever the bonus is while nice, I'm not sure of a fight where it's as important as that extra few seconds on GoAK (I recall it being a huge boon on Cho'gall)
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Re: 4 Piece Tier 12 vs Offset Pieces

Postby Arincia » Tue Jul 12, 2011 12:32 pm

Well if block capped it provides a very strong cd coverage time for 2/3 the time without touching out 3 minute CD's. HS>DP>4piece>HS>repeat. That said does anyone know if you can block caped (or almost) with 4 piece set bonus is the bigger question?
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Re: 4 Piece Tier 12 vs Offset Pieces

Postby Treck » Tue Jul 12, 2011 1:03 pm

Using the TB trinket and the mastery trinket from the spider, im so close to beeing block capped its like 3-4 gems to actually reach it iirc.
Getting block capped in t12 will be very possible.
Block capping in t11 raids wasnt really that important, as it stands now in t12, its a lot more attractive, not only thanks to the new holy shield, but also due to the fights in general (they are pretty easy aswell tho)
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Re: 4 Piece Tier 12 vs Offset Pieces

Postby Arincia » Tue Jul 12, 2011 2:59 pm

Yeah right now using a combination of 359/372/378 gear im block caped was just wondering if it was fully possible to do it with 372+ gear and have the 4 set bonus. If so the main appeal of the 4 piece would be to keep the same physical damage reduction uptime while having a magic reduction cd. (HS+DP glyphed>4 set then TB trinket+HS so 30/60 second of physical damage reduction) I'm not sure of a fight where you would need to use a magic damage reduction on cd all the time in tier 12 right now except maleroc fight. BTW anyone find it interesting that askmrrobot is defaulting normal T12 4 piece with tier shoulder/chest/hands/legs and heroic T12 as helm/chest/hands/legs?
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