[25HM] Lord Rhyolith

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[25HM] Lord Rhyolith

Postby Kerriodos » Thu Jul 07, 2011 9:19 pm

Spent the night working on him with little progress. We know we're doing something wrong, but we're not sure what--the few times we pushed phase two, he had 15+ stacks of Superheated. So obviously our DPS is way too slow, which is generally not a problem for the guild. We know we have to push him to phase 2 before the 5 minute mark, and to do so have begun lusting at 4 minutes, with the assumption that the armor is either off, or very low by that point. Still, our DPS is falling short of the mark.

Is there something we're missing? We argued half the night about whether to stack the Fragments on the ranged or melee, and which provided better DPS. We've tried simply offtanking the 4th spark straight through to pushing phase 2. Nothing seems to work, or at least not work enough to get us where we want.

One thing I was considering is having the other tank tank the Spark for longer via external CDs, since he can be killed faster later on; this would free up valuable DPS time. Other than that I'm stumped. If we have everyone on legs we invariably have trouble with people not switching legs properly, etc, or adds not dying in time, or any number of things.

So, I turn to you, Maintankadin. Point me in the right direction?
Last edited by Kerriodos on Fri Jul 08, 2011 8:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 25H Lord Rhyolith

Postby anafielle » Thu Jul 07, 2011 9:57 pm

You beat me to posting this thread while Warden and I were discussing it on vent.

I'm not tanking this, but I'm the driver.

Regarding Superheated-- I've got no suggestions there, as I cannot imagine DPS is a problem for us usually either and we appear to be way behind the mark as well. We hit phase 2 once this evening with what (as the driver) I thought was fairly decent volcano-hitting, and he had 12 stacks of Superheated and kicked the everliving daylights out of us immediately. The timing you quote is what we assumed as well; I heard 4:30 quoted, or that we wanted him to around 30% or lower when Superheated started to pop.

It appears to be completely necessary to hit every single active volcano as it spawns to get those armor stacks off the boss ASAP, so that DPS on him is more and more effective as quickly as possible. And to funnel as much DPS as possible onto the boss, but that DPS will be more effective with those armor stacks getting off him ASAP.

Which means it comes down to the driving / steering.

Frankly tonight, for us, steering was a clusterfuck. It was "almost" right, and I did get some of the active volcanoes, but it was just so...... unreliable. It was almost luck, when we had a good pull. I was about ready to just rip my hair out, because I would call for "left", and he would turn. I would call for "left", and he'd pull his hotfixed SUPERTURN (without any more DPS on him? We checked targets). I would call "left", and he would amble over towards the edge of the lava for about 10 more seconds before the turning bar would budge.

I have to make the calls preemptively. He has to be aimed at the volcanoes because there's a lag between the DPS switch and Rhy movement. To do this, I wanted to have a good idea of two things:
1) how long that lag was (between a "left" or "right" call, and the turn beginning)
2) how sharply he would turn
I wanted both of these things to be constant so I could drive, and all night, both seemed to vary widely within the same pull.

Without an effective way to steer him reliably, it is impossible to hit those volcanoes in the timeframe needed. Missing one in part of the room when you can't get back to it quickly means a wipe. And we didn't have an effective steering method, either because of the DPS splits we tried or my own failure at calling it effectively.

Could someone who has had luck going straight for the active volcanoes post a little about the DPS split they used? Where were your dots? Were you double dotting the legs? Who was on legs; who was switching for movement calls, how did you call it? Please give me some idea of what worked for you.

edit: We tried a bunch of different DPS splits, but almost all evening there were double dots on the boss & spare GCDs were being used to DPS legs, with people being told to DPS evenly & with everyone in the raid being given a "default" leg. This probably contributed to his uneven turning, but I don't see any way around it, since it looks like you have to put as much DPS as possible on him to meet the Superheated enrage. There has to be a way to "funnel" as much DPS onto the legs as possible while still steering him predictably. Alternatively, I could just suck at driving, but I honestly think I was calling for the turns (pretty much) OK -- the frustration was that he would overshoot or undershoot my target so much.

edit 2: How are you "moving" him on the pull? We tried originally turning him right on the pull, and then tried moving him through the middle & letting the first set of volcanoes spawn before turning. I am not sure which one is better for volcano spawns.

Supposedly with some of the recent hotfixes, he will only activate volcanoes in front of him (?) but I've seen him active ones on his side as he's turning which is kind of frustrating.

More of a rant than a post, really, but we had some trouble with this too. Thoughts, Maintankadin brain-trust?
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Re: 25H Lord Rhyolith

Postby Heracles » Thu Jul 07, 2011 10:57 pm

I am assuming you guys are putting all dps on the legs by the sounds of it?

What you need to do is have 5 to 6 dps assigned on each leg (make sure you have 5 and 5 or 6 and 6 for good balance). We personally found 6 was right for us on our first kill but your milage may vary and we actually went down to 5 on each leg last night after the nerfs/changes to this boss.

On our first kill we even tried 7 on each to zerg the legs faster by got overrun by adds. You want preferably direct melee/damage classes on the legs as less DoTs on them the better we found, though our Hunters are used to MD duty on adds.

We usually have a couple of Warriors, a Ret Pala, dps DK, kitty Druid and then one random (often a tank or healer as offspec melee dps) as dps on the legs. We also use a Lock (goes Destro for this I believe), an Elemental Shaman and 2 Mages. One of these Magi is usually by far our best dps but he is our most vocal ranged player and one of the raid leaders so he steers the boss and make the calls.

The rest of the raid is on adds, mostly Hunters (for MDs), our other Mage, Locks, SPs (one did 28k dps on our first kill, wasn't available to raid for the second kill last night).

I've taken Fragments on both kills. We had another Prot Pala on the Sparks first kill, Feral Druid on the Sparks last night. We mark both tanks up so they are easy to see. Ranged/Healers stack on me and move with me the whole fight to make most use of healing circles and ease of picking up adds. We tend to stack in the centre of the arena and the only time we move is to avoid fire out of the active volcanoes and if one spawns near us to give us greater reaction time to avoid that fire.

The bear tanks the Sparks on the right side of the platform as you look at it from the start and makes sure the Sparks are pulled out of the raid ASAP so not to stack his AE debuff on the raid. This tank has to be aware of the raid moving out of range sometimes as our other Prot Pala had to be BRed twice on our first kill during p1 cos we had to move away from him to avoid fire.

It's REALLY important all dps assigned to adds do not touch the legs under any circumstances, this includes on the pull so they don't stack extra DoTs on the legs making it harder to turn. They told they are there to firstly nuke down the Fragments, then the Sparks after that... then stand there and simply avoid shit if nothing is up (which isn't that long tbh, especially near p2 when things start getting a bit more frantic).

After that it's just getting the two leg teams to work together. We usually have 3 melee, 2 ranged in each group. Group 2 on left leg, group 3 on right. Our Mage simply calls "Move him left/right." at which point the leg dpsers move to that leg. Or he'll simply say "Straigthen him up." in which case leg dpsers nuke the leg they were assigned at the start of the fight.

It's all down to practice and this did seem a LOT easier last night. We found about 45% on the legs was a bitch that wiped us if we didn't deal with the volcanoes correctly but he seemed to turn a lot sharper since the changes. It does help if you get a "good run" on volcanoes without having to turn him much, which again seems more likely given the changes. If he manages to drink from the lava, it's a wipe, if he gets more than 2 volcanoes active, again it's more than likely another wipe.

I am surprised you found p2 difficult we popped hero and nuked him down with ease, not even having to tank swap. It was just stack the raid on his arse, burn pop hero then raid CDs such as barrier/DG/RC/Hymn and "lol? Was that it? O.o" /collect purples. This fight really is all about p1, p2 is a joke.

Logs of both our kills if you want to have a gander:

First kill:
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/duvj ... 008&e=2350

Last night's kill:
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/30zp ... 127&e=7493

Hope it helps. :)
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Re: 25H Lord Rhyolith

Postby anafielle » Thu Jul 07, 2011 11:02 pm

You've linked logs for normal mode kills. This is a heroic mode discussion thread.

We didn't find him very difficult last week either. :)
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Re: 25H Lord Rhyolith

Postby Heracles » Thu Jul 07, 2011 11:08 pm

My bad then, failed to see the H on the thread... that's what you get for staying up all night. :D

Well grats on getting to heroic modes in the first week and hopefully someone here will have have something of value to offer you. :D
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Re: 25H Lord Rhyolith

Postby warden » Fri Jul 08, 2011 12:15 am

We do appreciate you being willing to chime in and offer suggestions though, just we were really seeking advice from some people who had worked through the same issues on heroic already (/tar treck) (/wink) :)
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Re: 25H Lord Rhyolith

Postby Arianne » Fri Jul 08, 2011 1:14 am

We had similar issues to you all tonight while we were working on him. Sometimes he'd turn and sometimes he wouldn't. Either way DPS was behind compared to what was expected. Trying to turn him sharp right and make a circle then loop around the outside ended up with the volcano on the left side active and then we'd end up having to go through 2-3 dormant volcanos to get to the active one. I've seen it said that it's the # of hits that gets him to turn, which means that it's an advantage to bring fast hitting melee classes. It's a really frustrating fight because the mechanics are not explained at all.

Molten Armor stacks were very inconsistent (2 stacks for dormant, -1 stacks for active?) and we couldn't figure out what was going on there. How are you supposed to hit 2 active volcanos for every dormant one?

We kept losing our spark tank due to having huge raid damage going out from the molten armor stacks (I believe), though sometimes the spark simply got too large.

We had 2 tanks (1 spark, 1 fragment), 6 melee (2 on each food plus 2 swappers - 1 rogue, 2 ret, 2 DK, 1 feral), 6 healers (1 priest, 2 shaman, 2 paladin, 1 druid), and 11 ranged (3 lock, 1 spriest, 1 boomkin, 2 hunter, 3 mages, 1 ele sham).
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Re: 25H Lord Rhyolith

Postby towelliee » Fri Jul 08, 2011 1:38 am

We just downed this tonight. Here is the stream version of the encounter from tonight:

http://www.justin.tv/towelliee/b/289727406 watch 49 minutes - 56 minutes.

Phase 1 as hard as it may seem isn't the hardest part. it is the actual transition. he has that stacking buff called SUPER HEATED which is what wipes you mostly in P2.

If you push him to Phase 2 before 5:00 he will not start to gain stakcs of super heated until after 5 min making it more manageable.

Once the 4th Spark spawns we just ignored dpsing the fragments and the spark and just burned down the legs to push him to P2.

I tanked sparks and it was no joke. I was block caped for it and did pretty well. I had to blow ALOT of my cooldowns on spark tanking.
Last edited by towelliee on Fri Jul 08, 2011 9:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 25H Lord Rhyolith

Postby dukka » Fri Jul 08, 2011 3:20 am

Small note: I'm fairly certain that the eruption stacks from p1 can carry into p2, if you have more than a few of those, immolation ticks can be pretty brutal, speaking from 10 man h here, but I don't think there would be much difference there, that's the only explanation I have for immolation sometimes ticking 16k sometimes 8k (on a non superheated boss) - just wanted to add because we were wondering about why we were getting (more than supposed to) owned in the phasechange
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Re: 25H Lord Rhyolith

Postby Kerriodos » Fri Jul 08, 2011 8:31 am

towelliee wrote:We just downed this tonight. Here is the stream version of the encounter from tonight:

http://www.justin.tv/towelliee/b/289727406 watch 49 minutes - 56 minutes.

Phase 1 as hard as it may seem isn't the hardest part. it is the actual transition. he has that stacking buff called SUPER HEATED which is what wipes you mostly in P2.

If you push him to Phase 2 before 5:00 he will not be super heated in P2 and the damage is more manageable.

Once the 4th Spark spawns we just ignored dpsing the fragments and the spark and just burned down the legs to push him to P2.

That way there is no sueprheated. I tanked sparks and it was no joke. I was block caped for it and did pretty well. I had to blow ALOT of my cooldowns on spark tanking.


Our problem wasn't that phase 1 was difficult, but that it was too slow. We simply didn't seem to have the DPS on the legs to push him in time, and were going into phase 2 with a bunch of stacks of Superheated, meaning the first stomp would destroy us. Problem was, if we pulled DPS off of adds and onto legs, we invariably had issues with adds simply not dying fast enough, or the boss not turning the direction called (I suspect this is just people too worried about their numbers to listen or double check their target).

We tried the same thing with the 4th spark as you. It spawns at 4 minutes, we off-tank it and lust, making sure all previous Fragments are dead, and off-tank any more that come out. More Fragments come out at around 4:20-4:25, and we have 'till 4:50-4:55 to push the boss or people die. And pushing the boss just isn't happening.

Essentially, it seems like Ana and I need to know the same thing here: How can we get more DPS on the legs, without making steering harder than it already can be, and what are the tricks to keep the steering controlable?
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Re: 25H Lord Rhyolith

Postby Kihra » Fri Jul 08, 2011 9:44 am

towelliee wrote:If you push him to Phase 2 before 5:00 he will not be super heated in P2 and the damage is more manageable.


Just correcting you a bit here. He starts gaining Superheated stacks around the 5:00 mark regardless of whether you're already in P2 or not, and they just keep stacking. You want to transition as fast as possible so that you have some P2 time where he isn't Superheated, but you'll still spend some time in P2 with some Superheated stacks towards the end. Our kill was 5:16, so he got 3 Superheated stacks.

As for steering, we used melee to DPS the legs, but we had a ranged DPS doing the "driving." I think it's important to be at range if you're driving Rhyolith, so that you have good visibility and can really see where he needs to go.

Sparks were killed by ranged DPS, and Fragments were killed by ranged DPS and DKs. (We found death grip useful for getting outlying Fragments grouped up fast so that the pack could be gathered and blown up more quickly.)

When steering him, our driver distinguished between making left and right turns and "emergency hard left" or "emergency hard right." For emergency turning, everyone would get involved. Having stronger language for more dramatic turns helped the DPSers on the legs to move him more dramatically when needed.

It's very important that you control Molten Armor stacks. Every time he steps over a dormant volcano he gains a Molten Armor stack. Therefore you want to steer him away from dormant volcanoes when possible and only have him step on active volcanoes. He will lose a Molten Armor stack every 15 seconds, so just try to minimize the dormant volcanoes that you hit, and you should be ok.

The transition is key. You want to ignore that 4th Spark and have everyone concentrate on transitioning him instead. You still have to clean up Fragments though. You gain a lot of time if you ignore that 4th Spark.
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Re: [25HM] Lord Rhyolith

Postby towelliee » Fri Jul 08, 2011 9:45 am

Group 1 Left Leg - Warrior/Dk/Rogue
Group 2 Right Leg - Enchance Shaman/Rogue Warrior
FFA - Free for all - Ret Paladin / DK

For hard turns we had both groups switch. For Soft turns it was the Free for all dps on the specific leg.

hard turn - Probably would be something like OMG MAGMA or Volcano RNG pops somewhere in west Africa.

Soft turn - just normal turning volcano to volcano from one side of platform to the other

For straight ahead we just evened out the bar at the bottom

And yes Super Heated was inaccurate in my last post. In general to us getting him before 5 minutes just meant super heated is a non issue with good dps.

WIth the spark we basically aoe'd the adds down quickly then in between the aoe on adds switched to spark for 15 seconds or so before next round came out.
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Re: 25H Lord Rhyolith

Postby fafhrd » Fri Jul 08, 2011 10:55 am

Kihra wrote:It's very important that you control Molten Armor stacks. Every time he steps over a dormant volcano he gains a Molten Armor stack. Therefore you want to steer him away from dormant volcanoes when possible and only have him step on active volcanoes. He will lose a Molten Armor stack every 15 seconds, so just try to minimize the dormant volcanoes that you hit, and you should be ok.


Wait, what? This isn't what we've been seeing at all, albeit on 10H. He doesn't seem to gain any stacks from stomping dormant volcanoes, and he doesn't lose armor stacks every 15s, he loses 10 armor stacks when he stomps an active volcano. The only thing that makes him gain stacks is if Liquid Obsidians are allowed to reach him and Fuse, in which case each one gives him 1 stack.
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Re: [25HM] Lord Rhyolith

Postby Chicken » Fri Jul 08, 2011 11:06 am

Molten Armor isn't the same as Obsidian Armor. One's a stacking damage buff, the other is the damage reduction he has.
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Re: [25HM] Lord Rhyolith

Postby fafhrd » Fri Jul 08, 2011 11:21 am

Chicken wrote:Molten Armor isn't the same as Obsidian Armor. One's a stacking damage buff, the other is the damage reduction he has.


D'oh, thanks, you're right, I need to pay more attention.
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