[10] Beth'tilac

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Re: [10] Beth'tilac

Postby Koatanga » Thu Jul 07, 2011 1:45 pm

Copied this quote from the progression path thread because I wanted to comment on it and get input from people here.

Treck wrote:Spinners hit for about a few thousand damage, but when they are in their web, they cast firebolts for about 40k on people.
Taunting them down is the biggest reduction in raid damage you can fix for that fight.


Our elemental shaman, who was primary on Spinners, said that she does a lot more damage to them while they are on the web because they are not interrupting her casts.

As it seems my raid is having an issue getting things down in time, I wonder if it is worth taking some extra damage in order to kill them more quickly.

What are your thoughts?
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Re: [10] Beth'tilac

Postby Hrobertgar » Thu Jul 07, 2011 2:03 pm

If your healers can start ph2 with enough mana (ie close to full) then I guess you could dps them on the webs, but that is a big if. Its just that ph2 is extremely healing intensive and wipe is by missed tank/raid CD or by healer oom.

If the shammy has an issue with the spinners interupting her casts, then maybe she can help on the drone once the spiderlings are dead, and melee can handle the spinners on the ground.

Its really only the third up phase that is crucial. For that phase its best if everything down below dies before or very shortly after she lands. Having things die slowly earlier on is just a minor inconvenience.
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Re: [10] Beth'tilac

Postby Koatanga » Thu Jul 07, 2011 2:43 pm

We had issues with too many adds if they didn't go down quickly enough.

We were using the Tankspot suggestion with regard to DPS assignments, so we had:

Elemental Shaman on Spinners full time, and drones if no spinners are alive.

We had an affliction lock doing spiderlings > spinners > drones.

Our Mage and Hunter did spiderlings > drones.

Lower tank was taunting and tanking drones.

That wasn't enough to keep adds from overrunning the bottom, so we had the DK stay down go full-time on drones, leaving us no DPS up top.

This was primarily to learn mechanics and get to P2 - we understand that we need more DPS on top. However, we have to wean the DPS from having 5 below to having 4 below in order to shorten P2 and get a kill, but we seem to only be keeping up with the adds down below with 5 DPS.

I would like to reduce the lower damage to keep healers in mana, but if it compounds the DPS problems we already have, I don't know how viable that will be.
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Re: [10] Beth'tilac

Postby Belloc » Thu Jul 07, 2011 3:09 pm

A lot of people are having problems with the tankspot strategy. Try to figure out alternate positioning that works for you.
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Re: [10] Beth'tilac

Postby Chicken » Thu Jul 07, 2011 3:41 pm

Three people on spiderlings also sounds like too many to me. You should be able to manage with two, which would likely help a lot on getting the rest cleared up as well. We have one DPS primarily focused on drones, one primarily focused on spinners, and two focused on spiderlings. Honestly we don't even have someone primarily focused on Spinners either, as a Warlock I just keep a full array of DoTs up on all of them consistently, and I directly nuke the Drone in between that.
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Re: [10] Beth'tilac

Postby frontallobe » Thu Jul 07, 2011 8:03 pm

We had no people up top until we felt confident on strategy and assignments. It's a good learning strategy and it is possible to burn her from 100. As people learn the roles it will smooth out and dps will increase on the adds imho.
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Re: [10] Beth'tilac

Postby Koatanga » Fri Jul 08, 2011 3:54 pm

Out of curiosity, what iLvl are we talking about with people burning her from 100%? My raid is 360.
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Re: [10] Beth'tilac

Postby frontallobe » Fri Jul 08, 2011 7:57 pm

We were 12/12 reg when we killed her (359s) and we had one melee up there for 2 devestation then had him down for the third to make sure the spiderlings were down when she came down for P2 - she came down at 84% and we burned her from there.
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Re: [10] Beth'tilac

Postby Korbah » Sat Jul 09, 2011 12:51 pm

Koatanga wrote:Out of curiosity, what iLvl are we talking about with people burning her from 100%? My raid is 360.

My guild had to kill her from 100% each try, as we weren't able to kill the last set of spiderlings quick enough. We're around 359-360 ilvl too.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/281j ... boss=52498
is a link to our parse for that fight
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Re: [10] Beth'tilac

Postby kovaras » Mon Jul 11, 2011 1:46 am

Sharing detailed encounter analysis, mechanics, and strat and video(Prot Pally PoV) for Beth'tilac 10man --> http://raidbriefing.blogspot.com/2011/0 ... an-nm.html
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Re: [10] Beth'tilac

Postby Epimer » Mon Jul 11, 2011 2:41 am

I've been upstairs for both of our kills, so I'd appreciate some input from people who have experience of the downstairs portion: is having a lot of Spinners down causing problems with spell pushback on your healers and casters?

I ask because - despite my linking logs showing that Burning Acid is always >90% of the damage output of the Spinners - I'm getting chided for taunting down too many Spinners (at least two from HoR + RD, then 1-2 more while I'm on my way up, plus the extra that the DPS DK brings down) because it "makes things chaotic" downstairs due to the Spinners running around smacking people. My argument is that it's a psychological thing because they do so, so much more damage if they're left on the strands but I'd like to hear from people who have actually been downstairs before really pressing my point.

Also, upstairs people: are your healers struggling too? It's kind of hard for me to judge because on our first kill my upstairs healer was a full-time Ret who had hardly ever been Holy before, but this week it was a trial healer. He was definitely struggling and I was rotating cooldowns the entire time just to stay off the floor, but I don't know if that's standard (for people in ~362 gear) or if he's underperforming.
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Re: [10] Beth'tilac

Postby Forgrim » Mon Jul 11, 2011 5:01 am

I guess, it would depend on your healer...we send me (prot pal), a holy pal, and a fury warrior up top and there are hairy times when the holy paladin is on the move. However, generally, he seems to keep up with the damage by beaconing the fury warrior and just chain healing me with the appropriate heal at the time. I do use DP, then mirror of broken images, then holy shield on cooldown too. Generally helps alot when the healer is trying to get out of the meteor. (he's fallen through if he's on the outer edge AND jumping. it was pretty funny)
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Re: [10] Beth'tilac

Postby Epimer » Mon Jul 11, 2011 5:12 am

I'm using GAnK when I go up the first and third time (still wearing 4pc T11) or Ardent Defender on the second time, plus Holy Shield, plus my first 3 HoP go on a WoG for either the heal or the absorb. Dodge on use when GAnK expires, Glyphed Divine Protection to cover one pulse, Mirror to cover another, 3 point WoG the next time it's up, Holy Shield on the next cooldown. I'm spending nearly all of my time upstairs on <40% health and LoH has saved my bacon more than once.

To be fair to the healer I'd be using that cooldown rotation anyway but to do so and be constantly fearing for my life seems to be slightly excessive. Are my expectations for the healer too high?

EDIT: My favourite part of the evening was hearing on Vent "Shit, I have to move, use a cooldown!" >:|
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Re: [10] Beth'tilac

Postby Forgrim » Mon Jul 11, 2011 5:18 am

When you meant chain, you REALLY meant chain...I don't even pop a CD anymore going up first since usually my healer is about 2 seconds behind me. The first couple times up there involves the healer getting used to the damage output and then it gets or should get better. if not, i'd say your healer isn't really up to par.
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Re: [10] Beth'tilac

Postby Calleana » Mon Jul 11, 2011 5:30 am

Our up top healer also struggled on the tank healing not helped by the occassional falling through the web when he didn't really want to.

We pushed P2 from 100% yesterday (ilvl 359s predominately), very messy but we kileld her.

As a thought are there any other reasons not to let the drones up top? My thought are that this would make P1 quicker and as we can't at present afford to send any dps up to the top we aren't benefitting from extending P1 other than sucking out unnecessary mana from our healers.
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