New tanking class ideas

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Re: New tanking class ideas

Postby superworm » Tue Jun 28, 2011 12:45 am

IMO, instead of adding a new tanking class, they should just make all current classes able to tank (and also to heal). They can do the following to accomplish that:

1. Players are able to switch among 3 specs, instead of 2.

2. Each class has a tanking spec, a dps spec and a healing spec. It's possible because Blizzard will still have 30 specs to balance.

3. Assign each class with a main status. (Currently it's almost in this way, except for some hybrid classes like druids and paladins.) Remove those stamina gems, enchants and trinkets. Make it more like the original Warcraft 3 game, so that all tank specs have a certain ratio of convertion from their main status to HP. Remove those defensive status all together, make them available to tanks from main status, talents, mastery, etc. Then people will likely to use almost the same set of gear for dps, tanking and healing.

I think this will certainly make the game more fun. It will also solve the problem that some guilds lack the certain number of tanks or healers for a specific encounter (e.g. when their dedicated tank is absent due to real life business). Currently an encounter will become very difficult if you lack a certain number of well-equiped tanks. Most guilds have to prepare some backup tanks, who are usually under-geared. With the proposed change, people use the same set of equipment to tank, dps and heal. So it only depends on their skill and knowledge, instead of their class and equipment.
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Re: New tanking class ideas

Postby Aanar » Tue Jul 05, 2011 12:19 pm

I like the idea of a mage-tank ala Gandalf's, "You shall not pass!" High level mages in Baulder's Gate had a lot of powerful defensive spells.

I like the idea of a class that has 1 dps tree, 1 heal tree, and one tree that you basically get 1/2 a healer and 1/2 a dps. It would be nice for 10 mans when you're not ready to drop from 3 to 2 healers but could do it with 2.5. It would have it's own balance problems though, so might not be feasible.
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Re: New tanking class ideas

Postby Shoju » Wed Jul 06, 2011 6:43 am

superworm wrote:IMO, instead of adding a new tanking class, they should just make all current classes able to tank (and also to heal). They can do the following to accomplish that:

1. Players are able to switch among 3 specs, instead of 2.

2. Each class has a tanking spec, a dps spec and a healing spec. It's possible because Blizzard will still have 30 specs to balance.

3. Assign each class with a main status. (Currently it's almost in this way, except for some hybrid classes like druids and paladins.) Remove those stamina gems, enchants and trinkets. Make it more like the original Warcraft 3 game, so that all tank specs have a certain ratio of convertion from their main status to HP. Remove those defensive status all together, make them available to tanks from main status, talents, mastery, etc. Then people will likely to use almost the same set of gear for dps, tanking and healing.

I think this will certainly make the game more fun. It will also solve the problem that some guilds lack the certain number of tanks or healers for a specific encounter (e.g. when their dedicated tank is absent due to real life business). Currently an encounter will become very difficult if you lack a certain number of well-equiped tanks. Most guilds have to prepare some backup tanks, who are usually under-geared. With the proposed change, people use the same set of equipment to tank, dps and heal. So it only depends on their skill and knowledge, instead of their class and equipment.


While an interesting Idea, I think I would never play a game like this. Ever. I would quit WoW if it came to this.
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Re: New tanking class ideas

Postby Mcduffie » Wed Jul 06, 2011 7:15 am

Koatanga wrote:I think it should be a vehicle class. Personally, I would scrap engineering as a profession and make it into a class, but if not then call it a Tinker class. It would be energy-based like a rogue.

The trees would be engineering specialties:

Mechanical Engineering creates vehicles and uses them to fight with. Like the feral druid tree, this would encompass the tanking and melee DPS roles. The tank would be a wheeled/tracked vehicle created from pieces of armour - the tank himself would be basically in his skivvies. Possibly there could be a passenger compartment for additional flavour/lols. The DPS would wear his armour like a mech suit.

Biological Engineering would be the healing tree. They would heal via nano-bots, injections, gene therapy, etc. They would equip a dart gun that would fire various instant heals/cures, and use nano-bots and genetics for damage prevention and HoTs. They would be strong with HoTs and damage prevention - sort of a druid/disc blend in flavour. Healers would be a bit crippled in sustained-heavy-damage periods, but would have infinite longevity at maximum potential (due to contant energy regen), whereas other healing classes run out of mana or need downtime or reduced-effectiveness time to recover mana. A mechanic similar to adrenaline rush could be called upon for burst situations.

Chemical engineering would be a ranged DPS class, primarily relying on acids and gasses, though not without a literal nuke. The primary weapon would be a launcher that can be loaded with various different things to launch. The "flavour" of this spec would revolve around pre-loading the launcher with the things needed for the coming fight, with load-outs taking some time (but doable in-fight) as a penalty for getting it wrong. Launches would be instant-cast, perhaps with cooldowns varying with the thing launched, but reloads would require down-time. In PvP, an engineer caught with an empty launcher would be a sitting duck, but with a full clip would be a force to be reckoned with. They would be a bit like DK runes, if a DK was allowed to select which runes he wanted for a fight instead of starting with two of each type.


The engineer would use energy to power its mechs, bots, and launchers, so would use an energy toolbar like a rogue.

I am unsure which armour types the engineer would use. Perhaps it could even be a variety - mail and plate for the mechs, cloth and leather for the bio and chemical.

I would, in the patch that introduces this class, dispose entirely of intellect plate. Paladins would have a holy talent to convert physical stats into int/mana/spirit.

Imma let you finish, but ^THIS is the best idea in this thread so far.
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Re: New tanking class ideas

Postby Aanar » Wed Jul 06, 2011 8:38 am

Shoju wrote:
superworm wrote:IMO, instead of adding a new tanking class, they should just make all current classes able to tank (and also to heal). They can do the following to accomplish that:
...


While an interesting Idea, I think I would never play a game like this. Ever. I would quit WoW if it came to this.


I agree, this takes it a little too close to boring for me. Imagine if they took it further and just put one stat on gear and call it power or something?

I know some people play hunter/mage/lock/rogue because they never want to be pressured to tank/heal, so I don't see a problem with having classes that only dps. (Though personally I play these alts the least)

I understand Blizzard's concern about being able to fit in more specs w/o making them feel too much the same, but for me the style and animations of a character are a big factor and not just the gameplay of which buttons they have to push. So I think there's room for more classes.

There's some things they don't have yet that would be pretty doable within the existing game framework.
1. A melee (dps/tank) that uses SP items (could be any armor type really) and uses self-buffs, weapon enhancements, and melee-range spells. I kind of wish they went this direction with the ret revamp instead of converting them to str plate. It would have given another use for sp plate. Also they could have done this with discipline instead of making it another heal spec. But I like disc now, so no taking it away! ;-)
2. They killed dual-weild tanking with frost dks. There'd be room for something like a ranger that uses agi mail and tanks duel-wield style. Cooldowns that make him parry like a madman in a whirl of blades would be a cool animation. Maybe their specs could be dw tank, dw melee, and range bow/xbow/gun. It might end up too much like the existing hunters, but not everyone likes managing a pet and it would add someone else that uses the range slot as a weapon and not just a stat stick. Alternatively, I always thought they should change hunter's survival spec into a melee dps spec. They could do this by just changing one of the rogue trees too.
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Re: New tanking class ideas

Postby phara » Mon Aug 29, 2011 7:29 am

Aanar, you described the Enhance Shammy Tank.
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Re: New tanking class ideas

Postby Astronomic » Mon Aug 29, 2011 7:36 am

I honestly don't think they need a new tanking class, maybe a slight rework of existing ones. We have 4 tanks, 4 healers, and 4 pure dps. Maybe making the pure dps the top dmg again would balance it better. Im looking at you shadow priests and boomkins.
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Re: New tanking class ideas

Postby Treck » Mon Aug 29, 2011 7:41 am

Boomkins are NOT a good dps class, only do they become decent if you can multidot.
Shadowpriests are pretty much the same, but they can still do very good on single target, but they shine on multitargets.
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Re: New tanking class ideas

Postby Dantriges » Mon Aug 29, 2011 9:16 am

Well this idea is hard to implement because of player reactions. There are enoug hybrid DPS players who don´t like to switch to another spec or do so only when needed but don´t like it.

Most melees besides rogues would turn into a 3/4 DPS. Well we would have a flood of new tanks but probably people reroll or quit.

Manyt tankadins weren´t content with being the niche tank. Most healed when it was demanded but it wasn´t their chosen playstyle. What´s next? tankniches with tankadins being AoE, Dks only for magic, ferals for looking teddy and warriors being bosstank?

Some people who like to switch roles, would perhaps like the idea. Some of the roleswitchers would be annoyed that they are only secondary DPS if they spec into it and unless you bring something unqiue the DPS spec is questing only. And the guys who prefer the DPS spec will be annoyed by this backstep into BC. And probably quite a few ofthe annoyed guyswill just stop playing.

I don´t know why pure DPS always over look the advantages they have. Not forced into another role and well one DPS spec is always top end DPS and one underpowered even if Blizz tries to balance it. The worst is that the low spec becomes the highest dps spec. Of course people will hate that they have to spec out of a prefered DPS spec but it´s still better than switching to a complete different role or sitting there, waiting for buffs if you are committed to your role.

People didn´t like that much in BC, paladin tanks had the same role in BC, bein second to warriors. People took it because they were more committed to the game and they could say, well I bring some muc needed buffs. Nowadays, it´s probably a good decision if you want to close the doors.
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Re: New tanking class ideas

Postby Mannstein » Thu Sep 08, 2011 4:53 am

Astronomic wrote:I honestly don't think they need a new tanking class, maybe a slight rework of existing ones. We have 4 tanks, 4 healers, and 4 pure dps. Maybe making the pure dps the top dmg again would balance it better. Im looking at you shadow priests and boomkins.

/JK: Do not feed the trolls :P
i do not understad how is that aplying a bad design (a DPS spec do less DPS that another) would help tank balacing, and unless that you mean that for each 10guys that would Quit/reroll to pure dps, 1 guy would go tank/heal.
BUT LET US NOT TURN THIS INTO PURE VS HIBRID DPS DISCUSSION.
/Back to topic
superworm wrote:3. Assign each class with a main status. (Currently it's almost in this way, except for some hybrid classes like druids and paladins.) Remove those stamina gems, enchants and trinkets. Make it more like the original Warcraft 3 game, so that all tank specs have a certain ratio of convertion from their main status to HP. Remove those defensive status all together, make them available to tanks from main status, talents, mastery, etc. Then people will likely to use almost the same set of gear for dps, tanking and healing.
class and equipment.

All ideas have merit and for sure some people like this one, but if WoW turns into this, i will quit so fast that my keyboard would break.

I will agree that i have strange ideas and probably should shut up, BUT for me:
1) I liked the defence rating idea, to have the "minimum stat/barrier" and having to lose more that 2s in looking into my gear. I remember buying the dala rep hands and be unable to equip them due to the high defense BS ones, but cannot remember 90% of my tank drops in CATA.

2) Exp/Hit... I remember a time we had to have threat stats to have you know... threat. I fail to grasp how someone (ou group of persons aka company) implement a change (yes, i'm looking at you vengeance) that completly destroys the need for threat gear then notice that no sane tank wants them...

3) A new class (even a vehicle one) will go thru the normal blizz stages.
"This will be a completly unike slowflake"
"We are aware that this classe is a little OP/WEAK/unbalaced/#insertrandom"
"We will change slightly their abilities keeping the flavor"
"(New Ability) Fuel Slam: by expending 50%fuel you can slam your shield err steering wheel, on the face of the boss"
"Despite the fact that the new ability has exactly the same animation, sound and mecanic that shield slam, i do not agree that it is equal, since it uses fuel and not rage."
"STFU, We cannot sacrifice balance for the sake of uniqueness"

but please ignore my rant
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Re: New tanking class ideas

Postby Aoaga » Wed Mar 14, 2012 1:03 pm

Well now that the Dragon Aspects are...."Mortal" so to speak, I plan on having my "oh-so-sassy" Blood Elf hunter try to get some Alexestrazha(sp) action---> thus spawning a new race of playable Half-Dragons. Tank spec - Similar to DK, no shield casue Dragons don't need no stinking shield. DPS - DW2Handers similar to Warriors with Titan's Grip casue Dragons are too strong to use little 1H weapons. And Heals Spec - HoT based similar to Druids becasue we need more HoTs, you can never have too many damn HoTs....but not Nature HoTs more like an Anti-Lock....

And after seeing the Majesty of this race, the male "Aspects" (and Ysera) would also be cool with giving the idea a go round, so they Half-Dragons wouldn't all have to be red.

Multiple options for character creation, finally use (some) of the High Elf model. Shoot maybe even do a Worgen-like thing where they "morph" into Battle Dragon form while in combat, and are in a more "High Elf" form while not?
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Re: New tanking class ideas

Postby Amirya » Wed Mar 14, 2012 1:10 pm

Aoaga wrote:And Heals Spec - HoT based similar to Druids becasue we need more HoTs, you can never have too many damn HoTs....but not Nature HoTs more like an Anti-Lock....

So instead of being warlocks, where you drain enemy life to heal yourself...you'd be draining your life to heal the enemy?

I don't think there'd be much desire for those type of healers.....
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Re: New tanking class ideas

Postby Shoju » Thu Mar 15, 2012 12:44 pm

What if you did some sort of Life leach thing, where you bound a friendly target, to the enemy target, and did health transfers?

Like... Drain Life that you could pass around to other people?
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Re: New tanking class ideas

Postby Aoaga » Thu Mar 15, 2012 1:11 pm

Shoju wrote:What if you did some sort of Life leach thing, where you bound a friendly target, to the enemy target, and did health transfers?

Like... Drain Life that you could pass around to other people?



^^I like this idea too

I was thinking about the anti-Warlock less about the losing life to heal, and more like reverse curses. Lets call them Boons.....Boon of Life (HoT)....Boon of Renewal...etc etc....insta cast like the Warlock's Banes/Corruption/Curses....HoT based, but man that life leech from bad guy Mob to friendly unit is good thinking too, and the spell effect/graphic for that could be sick.
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Re: New tanking class ideas

Postby Paxen » Sat May 12, 2012 4:42 am

I had some thoughts about the Shaman tank last year. I never got to show it to anybody, and it's a bit outdated now as it was based on the old Feral tank/dps tree. But since the thread got necro'ed anyway...

To be a tank, a character needs:

- Armor
- Avoidance
- Taunt
+Threat
Mitigation CDs
Vengeance

Gear, like for Bears, would be agi mail. Reforge dps stats to parry or dodge (probably parry). Lots of Agility gives dodge (rejig agi-> dodge rate for shamans to appropriate level). Mastery is of course a variant of tankadin/protwarrior mastery (so block chance).

My thought was to introduce one new Shield, Stone Shield, which gives an armor bonus (and doesn't have any charges, as it's a bit rough to go splat if you forget to refresh the shield). About +10k armor in Cata.

The +threat of a tank stance would be tied to Rockbiter. Without dualwielding, windfury or flametongue dps should be held to manageable levels. Taunt is Unleash Elements. The Enhancement Shaman already has a mitigation cd (Shamanistic Fury), and could get another from talents (like the Bear). Vengeance would require both Stone Shield and Rockbiter to be up - I thought it was pretty cool if taking blows on the Stone Shield powered the Rockbiter weapon.

AoE tanking would be done like enh shaman AoE dps, ie Fire Nova, Magma Totem and Chain Lightning (does Enh still work this way?), which is awesomely cool as dps (there's just something special about the fire and lightning going off all around you). Could also be a pretty decent ranged tank with lightning bolt, lava burst and chain lightning.

I guess this is mostly outdated by Pandaria Guardian spec for bears, but Shamans could use that setup as a starting point if they ever got to use their shield properly.
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