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[25] Nefarian Add Kiting

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Re: [25] Nefarian Add Kiting

Postby Era » Tue May 31, 2011 7:29 am

Thanks guys, should help quite a bit. I'm using the DBM timer as well, however we've been working under the assumption that the fire follows the adds - which gave us quite a few weird scenarios as I'm sure you can imagine. :roll:
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Re: [25] Nefarian Add Kiting

Postby Meloree » Tue May 31, 2011 7:30 am

They live for 50 seconds, not 90.
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Re: [25] Nefarian Add Kiting

Postby Kihra » Tue May 31, 2011 1:10 pm

Sharkattack056 wrote:He then stands there and tanks them until the 5 second warning. At this point, he starts moving the addsd until the next fire hits. As long as you are moving the adds the whole time during this 5 second warning, the Shadowflame should miss every time, and your adds will reset after 90 seconds.


Also, moving 5 seconds before the next flame is ridiculously early. You'll end up bumping up against fire if you move for 5 whole seconds prior to the shadow flame and then also move to avoid the flame. You don't have to move until the timer is at about 1 second if you strafe.
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Re: [25] Nefarian Add Kiting

Postby Era » Wed Jun 01, 2011 5:54 am

Yeah, we didn't have a viable setup last night so didn't get to try, however all of this makes a lot more sense than the way I was told to do it last time. Actually really looking forward to the next attempt. We did get him down a few times before, but I must've been lucky with the kiting!
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Re: [25] Nefarian Add Kiting

Postby inthedrops » Sun Jun 05, 2011 2:08 pm

I happened to be Fraps'ing a recent Nefarian kill and went ahead and made a quick video tutorial out of it. I found the adds on Nefarian to be one of the few challenging tasks in Cataclysm to master. And I constantly see questions about it. I'm hoping this is helpful to others:

Nefarian Add Tanking Tutorial:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSw3yX5DxPU
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Re: [25] Nefarian Add Kiting

Postby Kihra » Sun Jun 05, 2011 2:19 pm

inthedrops wrote:I happened to be Fraps'ing a recent Nefarian kill and went ahead and made a quick video tutorial out of it. I found the adds on Nefarian to be one of the few challenging tasks in Cataclysm to master. And I constantly see questions about it. I'm hoping this is helpful to others:

Nefarian Add Tanking Tutorial:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSw3yX5DxPU


Nice video. The one thing I would add to that is knowing how to deal with the situation where they don't all get back up immediately. For example you have lots of time before you have to move the original P1 adds out of the fire, so if you *do* get a slightly spread P1 clump, and they don't all get up immediately, you can just stand there and keep all the existing adds in the fire and just wait for the fire to reach the rest of them.

If you have the same issue later on and say only half the adds get up, again, just hold them in the fire and wait for the rest to get up. For the 10 second blazes, the best way to handle syncing them back up is to hold them all in fire all the way until the next blaze is about to come and then strafe out.
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Re: [25] Nefarian Add Kiting

Postby inthedrops » Sun Jun 05, 2011 2:32 pm

I did actually mention that in one of the blurbs near the start of P3. I just suck putting up the annotations well :)
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Re: [25] Nefarian Add Kiting

Postby Téuntjûh » Tue Jun 07, 2011 4:55 am

Just had to log in and reply inthedrops.

Really cool video. First one I saw where the add tanking was perfect.
Was about to believe it was impossible to keep the tanking so clean.
We started last sunday on Nef25hc and I'm pretty sure we can get her down this week if I can tank like that.
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Re: [25] Nefarian Add Kiting

Postby Era » Mon Jun 13, 2011 6:00 pm

inthedrops wrote:I happened to be Fraps'ing a recent Nefarian kill and went ahead and made a quick video tutorial out of it. I found the adds on Nefarian to be one of the few challenging tasks in Cataclysm to master. And I constantly see questions about it. I'm hoping this is helpful to others:

Nefarian Add Tanking Tutorial:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSw3yX5DxPU


Really nice video!
Gotten him down a few times now, but it's always nice to see footage of other paladins doing this. Thank you! :wink:
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Re: [25] Nefarian Add Kiting

Postby ashnod » Mon Jun 20, 2011 11:39 pm

How many stacks on the adds is normal before they reset? Our add tank is dying prematurely and healers are complaining that the adds have 30+ stacks. If adds are getting 30 stacks, does that mean they're getting hit by fire? ie, the tank's failing at moving?
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Re: [25] Nefarian Add Kiting

Postby madmessias » Tue Jun 21, 2011 3:13 am

ashnod wrote:How many stacks on the adds is normal before they reset? Our add tank is dying prematurely and healers are complaining that the adds have 30+ stacks. If adds are getting 30 stacks, does that mean they're getting hit by fire? ie, the tank's failing at moving?

I checked the movie from before, and they all died at around 15stacks, so 30 is def. too high.
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Re: [25] Nefarian Add Kiting

Postby Kerriodos » Tue Jun 21, 2011 8:49 am

ashnod wrote:How many stacks on the adds is normal before they reset? Our add tank is dying prematurely and healers are complaining that the adds have 30+ stacks. If adds are getting 30 stacks, does that mean they're getting hit by fire? ie, the tank's failing at moving?


12-15 stacks is the norm. Any more than that and they're just not doing it right.

On a related note, anyone else run into a bug with the add's hitboxes? A few weeks back I had one add in the clump in phase 1 that was standing on dead ones, but being hit by breaths from across the room. This started before he had more than 10, too. The behaviour continued in phase 3, where the boss was hitting this one add--but none of the others--with almost every breath. The boss died since most adds were handled fine, but one had 80+ stacks by the end. Seeing as this was on heroic, I think I gave my healers an aneurism.
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Re: [25] Nefarian Add Kiting

Postby ashnod » Tue Jun 21, 2011 2:58 pm

I looked at the Dungeon Journal on PTR to see what % damage per stack the adds get. It says 200% per stack on heroic. So 15 stacks is 3000% and 30 stacks would be 6000%?
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Re: [25] Nefarian Add Kiting

Postby Thark » Fri Jun 24, 2011 9:31 am

I could use a little help here. We've been working on this fight for a while. Although we don't get to P3 as often as I'd like, every time we do, the add tank healers complain that we can never finish this fight because the damage is too high.

I'm the add tank, and I'm not sure what else to do. I can position the adds just fine. They are resetting every 50s, I'm using a CD for every crackle, and we have a CD rotation such that I always have a CD running for the last 10-15s of every cycle. Yet they claim that the damage is just too high that they run OOM healing me and I die.

It's not that the crackle kills me, or the adds aren't resetting, or that cooldowns aren't being used, it's just that during the entire P3 they claim that the damage is so high they can't do anything but spam their biggest heals or I die.

I've done a lot of WOL browsing, and I don't see that the adds are hitting me any more often or any harder than other add tanks. I've started using Holy Wrath to keep them stunned more often to mitigate some damage, but they claim it's not nearly enough.

I don't have any ideas. When they watch videos all they point out is that other tanks "kite" the adds and never get hit. I assume they're watching old videos with the bugged adds. But all of the suggestions we get involve permanent slow/stuns of the adds, which they don't understand isn't viable. Even from Paperplate's video they want to point out how they say his health never moves, while mine is always spiking.

Typically in P3 2 Holy Paladins and a Disc Priest are healing me. They're good healers, but they have no interest in doing this fight because they have no confidence they they can heal me through P3. We've taken to 7 healing, and I think sometimes a 4th healer may HOT me up, but I'm not sure. Any input would be appreciated.
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Re: [25] Nefarian Add Kiting

Postby Brutalus » Fri Jun 24, 2011 10:02 am

It's difficult to say - it sounds as if everything is going as it should be. For me (during progression too) a divine prot was enough to handle the last 10 seconds before they died, so I wouldn't say that whatever cooldown you're using is too weak. We always use 4 healers on me, though, and a fifth healer hotting me up as well just to be safe. You're definately right about slowing/kiting them - you don't want to do that. On progression whenever our boomkin got high stacks of the MC buff he actually put some hots on me too, but I don't know if I would recomend that since we scrapped it pretty soon after the first kill. Perhaps a more balanced healer composition would be better? We have 1 of each class following me round, with the priest being holy so his shields give Body and Soul. That way you get the full spectrum of healing class abilities and tools, including much more hots. One thing that they could probably work on is not all moving at the same time, letting you drop, and thereby all spamming their fast, inefficient heals to top you up quickly - perhaps that's what is going on?
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