4.2 PTR discussion

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Re: 4.2 PTR discussion

Postby Treck » Thu Jun 23, 2011 1:54 am

a 391 cloak without mastery, doesnt seem usefull.
Isnt there a dps str cloak with mastery? would be suprised if we end up using that.

To bad they changed how agility worked, otherwise there would have been an epic agi cloak with dual sockets that would be sweet having :P
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Re: 4.2 PTR discussion

Postby mclem » Thu Jun 23, 2011 7:20 am

In terms of drops, I only see the int one and the agi one. Admittedly, we are operating on the assumption that there will never be a way to upgrade the ones from the vendors, and that may be a mistake.

I'm thinking there's a very real possibility that our best tank cloak will be http://ptr.wowhead.com/item=70384 - it'll depend just how the numbers break down in comparison with the 378 one.

Edit: Oops, forgot; you can't reforge Resilience, can you? That accounts for that.
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Re: 4.2 PTR discussion

Postby Treck » Thu Jun 23, 2011 7:56 am

mclem wrote:Edit: Oops, forgot; you can't reforge Resilience, can you? That accounts for that.

Idd, makes it annoying with that back.
I guess its implemented to make pvp items NOT be that good in pvp.
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Re: 4.2 PTR discussion

Postby Arincia » Thu Jun 23, 2011 8:26 am

Actually that pvp str/mastery cloak only has 24 less stam and has .15ish more ctc then the coded 391 parry/hit rep upgraded cloak.
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Re: 4.2 PTR discussion

Postby Treck » Thu Jun 23, 2011 8:53 am

Yeh, its competative against a non mastery cloak for sure.
Main point however is that we want a mastery cloak, not 100% sure but theres got to be a str mastery cloak for dpsers with 391?
Having that crit/haste/hit/exp reforged into dodge/parry should make it superior.
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Re: 4.2 PTR discussion

Postby Fetzie » Thu Jun 23, 2011 8:55 am

If we are block capped, then we wouldn't necessarily need the mastery on the cloak
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Re: 4.2 PTR discussion

Postby Treck » Thu Jun 23, 2011 9:55 am

Idd, but i dont see block capping to be that viable in firelands without using elixir and double mastery trinkets.
With BiS fireland gear, im pretty sure we still want to have mastery on every part.
Also remember that going for a Sta flask over mastery elixir is more effective than gemming for sta > mastery, meaning that if your gemming stamina, you do not want to use the elixir, and for those who are gemming mastery, the sta flask might still be more effective.

From the looks of it, it seems were going to be using one mastery trinket, and one sta trinket once again.
Its possible the TB trinket might still be used for progress on a boss or 2, but its honestly not as usefull in firelands as i originally thought.
Only really Baeloc and maybe Ragnaros where it seems usefull (For its use effect)

Comparing current gear with BiS fireland gear, its going to be giving about 2-3% more CTC from the gear only.

So basicly, if your 2-3% from cap the way you gear today, your going to reach the cap, if not your still going to be missing a bit.
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Re: 4.2 PTR discussion

Postby fuzzygeek » Thu Jun 23, 2011 10:36 am

Idd = I don't disagree?
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Re: 4.2 PTR discussion

Postby maurok » Thu Jun 23, 2011 11:09 am

Treck wrote:Idd, but i dont see block capping to be that viable in firelands without using elixir and double mastery trinkets.
With BiS fireland gear, im pretty sure we still want to have mastery on every part.

(...)

So basicly, if your 2-3% from cap the way you gear today, your going to reach the cap, if not your still going to be missing a bit.

Just for an "exercise" I just got threw your profile to wowhead, and created an item set comparison...

I basically chose 391 items with no INT/AGI/Crit/Haste, 4pc t12 (offset head), 1 stamina and 1 dodge trinket (since you were using the TB mastery trinket). I gemmed focused on STAMINA (getting all the bonuses) and enchanted the same way you did with current gear...

I made some choices with no Mastery like ring, cloak, feet and wrist (there is a wrist with mastery... but this one have a sweet itemization with much less STR)... and also a few t12 with no mastery as well (chest and shoulder).

Here is the LINK TO THE ITEM COMPARISON.


And even with that many parts with no mastery, there was a significantly increase on the CTC... the new set have extra:
249 Mastery (1.39)
772 Dodge (4.37%)
560 Parry (3.17%)

and also extra:
1101 STA
369 STR
1259 Armor
61 Expertise (2.03)
119 Hit (0.99%)


and it lost:
215 AGI
256 Crit (1.43%)

comparing the dodge we get today from those 215 AGI with the parry we will get from the extra STR, we loose about 61 "avoidance rating" if you want to take that into account.

The new BiS set (with plenty of non-mastery gear) gets about +3% block and +7% avoidance (probably less, since I doubt wowhead calculations consider DR), so let's say around 4~5%... so, this new 391 set nets us around 7~8% more CTC compared to your current set
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Re: 4.2 PTR discussion

Postby Treck » Thu Jun 23, 2011 11:51 am

Idd = Indeed.

I was actually (mistakenly) counting with 378gear bis gear, rather than 391, thats why my 3% came out short.
6-7% sounds about right for 391BiS gear.
Its a good comparison, however Wowhead doesnt take into account to reforging at all (atleast that profile doesnt)
Not on my gear, or the gear of the fireland gear.
I dont know if this is better or worse tho, higher ilvl usually means bigger ammount of stats to reforge, but they might also not be as good placed as currently.
Also, the dodge trinket is completely out of the question for me. The mastery + 20k shield at 35% health is a lot better imo, this however also means even more CTC.
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Re: 4.2 PTR discussion

Postby maurok » Thu Jun 23, 2011 12:22 pm

for some reason wowhead don't keep the reforging... but now that you've mentioned, I had only done reforging on the new set
So, I changed the trinkets and reforged your old set, and here is an Screenshot of the new comparison, (since the link don't get reforges anyway)
http://i.imgur.com/1UvWt.png
with the new trinket, you'll get almost 5% extra CTC out of block only, plus around 3.5~4% from avoidance
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Re: 4.2 PTR discussion

Postby chippydip » Fri Jun 24, 2011 8:56 am

Treck wrote:Also remember that going for a Sta flask over mastery elixir is more effective than gemming for sta > mastery, meaning that if your gemming stamina, you do not want to use the elixir, and for those who are gemming mastery, the sta flask might still be more effective.


That's actually not right. If you want more mastery, switching from flask (450 stam) to elixir + fort scroll (225 mastery + 150 stam) should be the first thing you do. Getting 225 mastery via gemming will cost you 337.5 stam but you only lose 300 stam with the elixir + scroll.
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Re: 4.2 PTR discussion

Postby Fetzie » Fri Jun 24, 2011 9:05 am

The fort scrolls count as elixirs now and now as the stamina buff (PW:Fort)?
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Re: 4.2 PTR discussion

Postby Flex » Fri Jun 24, 2011 9:12 am

The scroll counts as the Stamina buff class so can't be used with an Imp, Priest or Commanding Shout warrior in your group.

A neat little blurb in the damage dealing Q&A to help DPS. They can now dynamically adjust the "back" of a target to be 240 degrees on specific fights for kitties and backstabbing rogues.
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Re: 4.2 PTR discussion

Postby Cassyboy » Sat Jun 25, 2011 12:22 pm

Chippydip is talking about Scroll of Stamina IX . Which is considered as a guardian elixir.
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