[10] Heroic Valiona & Theralion

Moderators: Fridmarr, Worldie, Aergis, guillex

Re: [10] Heroic Valiona & Theralion

Postby Lionnis » Wed May 25, 2011 9:32 am

Strendarr wrote:Here's a strategy for heroic that I thought up that helped my guild manage blackouts more safely.

Before the pull I put down 3 markers 10 yards apart, in a (slightly curved) line. When blackout is cast, people run towards the first marker. They never hesitate. If they aren't going to get to the first marker at the same time as other people (if they're farther away) then run towards the second marker instead. By around the time the group is on top of the second marker, the debuff gets healed off (dispelled) and people go back to where they were. The third marker is there mainly to give people a direction to keep moving in, or if its a little slow on the dispell, so that way people don't just stop on the second marker.

Anyhow, twilight blasts never land on the group yet they stay grouped up enough to soak the blackout damage.


That sounds on the verge of over-complication. Since there's only 2 black out's in the first Valiona phase raid wide CD's and quick reactions easily solve deaths to meteor's at least in my experience.
User avatar
Lionnis
Maintankadonor
 
Posts: 43
Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2010 6:04 am

Re: [10] Heroic Valiona & Theralion

Postby Nevarien » Thu Jun 02, 2011 8:08 pm

Hey Guys, guild got our second V&T (H) kill last night and my first kill. Thought i'd chuck up how we run it so it may help others. We are very lucky that we have a resident rogue who stays in the twilight for a majority of the fight burning down the adds as he goes.

P1: Tank boss towards the centre of the room, have everyone else spreadout towards the rear of the dragon. Blackout, all collapse on the tail, we Barrier the first, and DG the second.

On transition I will hit 5 stacks and our rogue will come down with me. I blow my GoAK and leg to a portal, due to the intial immunity I make as much ground as I can. Was pretty lucky with portals last night so found one easily. I also ensure that I have 3 HP for a clutch heal if needed.

P2: We have generally 2 or 3 people at range for the voids with the rest of the group stacked on the tank to spread dmg for meteorite. Obviously peeps running out if they get engulfing magic. I call at 4 stacks and get the group to move to the tail.

I usally get 5 stacks right as Deep Breath is happening. Our calls are into middle and out of middle depending on where she is going. When I go under this time round i pop trinket and AD and leg it to the portal.

The rest of the fight generally goes the same as above only real difference is if the rogue is getting low, he pops up at my 3 stacks call gets healed and comes back down with me at 5. For the last blackout heading into the transition we hoped to hell its our mage or our paladin that gets it so they bubble/iceblock or if not, we sacrifice the blackout target. Essentially they run out of the group and die and we BRes them asap. This i think is a massive benefit. Healer mana is real tight and this allows them to conserve the remainder of it heading into the last stage of the fight.

We got them down right as I hit the 4th lot of 5 stacks.
Nevarien
 
Posts: 8
Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2011 10:54 pm
Location: Australia

Re: [10] Heroic Valiona & Theralion

Postby Fetzie » Wed Jun 08, 2011 11:54 pm

Has anyone noticed that you can avoid getting a stack of Shift by running away from the boss? Last night I managed to stay off getting the 5th stack until theralion started hitting me because I was moving away from the dazzling destructions.
Fetzie | Protection Paladin | EU-Kazzak
Author of the TankSpot Protection Paladin Guide
Image
Sagara wrote:You see, you need to *spread* the bun before you insert the hot dog.

bldavis wrote:we are trying to extend it as long as we can...it just never seems to last very long
User avatar
Fetzie
 
Posts: 2212
Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2009 9:43 am
Location: Karlsruhe, Germany

Re: [10] Heroic Valiona & Theralion

Postby Epimer » Thu Jun 09, 2011 1:51 am

On our half-hearted attempts at this I found that I could choose to have my 5th stack either just before Theralion landed or a short time after he'd landed based on how we did the pull. If I tanked Valiona on the stairs (i.e. running up to her and starting the fight) it would be as Theralion was landing, whereas if I did an Atramedes-style pull (stand in the middle of the room, Exo/AS/Judgement, wait for her to reach me) the application of the 5th stack would be sufficiently delayed that I wouldn't be phased until Theralion's melees.
User avatar
Epimer
 
Posts: 1496
Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2008 6:54 am

Re: [10] Heroic Valiona & Theralion

Postby Fetzie » Thu Jun 09, 2011 6:12 am

presumably you could then also delay the phasing until after the pink fire stripes despawn when valiona lands?
Fetzie | Protection Paladin | EU-Kazzak
Author of the TankSpot Protection Paladin Guide
Image
Sagara wrote:You see, you need to *spread* the bun before you insert the hot dog.

bldavis wrote:we are trying to extend it as long as we can...it just never seems to last very long
User avatar
Fetzie
 
Posts: 2212
Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2009 9:43 am
Location: Karlsruhe, Germany

Re: [10] Heroic Valiona & Theralion

Postby Epimer » Thu Jun 09, 2011 7:37 am

I wouldn't know, we never lasted that long :)
User avatar
Epimer
 
Posts: 1496
Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2008 6:54 am

Re: [10] Heroic Valiona & Theralion

Postby PsiVen » Fri Jun 10, 2011 8:49 am

If you run straight up and have her hit you immediately at the start, you will phase when the Dazzlings start going out, and should be able to get back in time to pick up Theralion most of the time. The next one should happen sometime before Deep Breaths, and you want to get back before the breaths start landing as they are instant death down below. 3rd one typically happens at the same time as Valiona's 2nd Blackout in her 2nd phase.

Finding portals can be quite obnoxious no matter when they're timed; I save all of my CDs for surviving in the twilight.
Gladiator Psiven, Retired Tankadin
WoW-sober since March 2014
Longtime addict of Space - Glory Through Conquest
User avatar
PsiVen
Moderator
 
Posts: 4364
Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2007 5:28 pm
Location: On a Boat

Re: [10] Heroic Valiona & Theralion

Postby Fetzie » Fri Jun 10, 2011 9:21 am

yeah sometimes it took me a good few seconds to find the nearest portal to me. Maybe it gets easier with time, but looking for a gray cloud in a room full of pink dots, dazzling destructions and dragonkin channeling other portal-like things is quite a difficult task :roll:.
Fetzie | Protection Paladin | EU-Kazzak
Author of the TankSpot Protection Paladin Guide
Image
Sagara wrote:You see, you need to *spread* the bun before you insert the hot dog.

bldavis wrote:we are trying to extend it as long as we can...it just never seems to last very long
User avatar
Fetzie
 
Posts: 2212
Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2009 9:43 am
Location: Karlsruhe, Germany

Re: [10] Heroic Valiona & Theralion

Postby Strendarr » Wed Jun 22, 2011 1:01 am

Lionnis wrote:
Strendarr wrote:Here's a strategy for heroic that I thought up that helped my guild manage blackouts more safely.

Before the pull I put down 3 markers 10 yards apart, in a (slightly curved) line. When blackout is cast, people run towards the first marker. They never hesitate. If they aren't going to get to the first marker at the same time as other people (if they're farther away) then run towards the second marker instead. By around the time the group is on top of the second marker, the debuff gets healed off (dispelled) and people go back to where they were. The third marker is there mainly to give people a direction to keep moving in, or if its a little slow on the dispell, so that way people don't just stop on the second marker.

Anyhow, twilight blasts never land on the group yet they stay grouped up enough to soak the blackout damage.


That sounds on the verge of over-complication. Since there's only 2 black out's in the first Valiona phase raid wide CD's and quick reactions easily solve deaths to meteor's at least in my experience.


No offense, but its a clearly superior strat. Nobody that I've raided with has had difficulties following it. I'm sure it helps that I can explain it on vent and they've got the markers for reference though.
Strendarr
 
Posts: 110
Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2008 2:22 am

Re: [10] Heroic Valiona & Theralion

Postby Treck » Wed Jun 22, 2011 8:27 am

Why not just mark a meele and all gather up on him for the blackouts?
User avatar
Treck
 
Posts: 2129
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 8:10 am

Re: [10] Heroic Valiona & Theralion

Postby Audax » Wed Jun 22, 2011 9:59 am

I didn't understand that blackout strategy on first reading but on re-reading I realized like they are clumping as a moving group instead of as a stationary one to avoid taking damage from twilight blasts while clumped, which sounds like a great idea if you can do it. Only marking a moving melee would probably make it harder to sync up, as everyone would end up trailing behind the marked melee if they didn't have a track to cut to.
Audax
 
Posts: 3
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2011 1:33 pm

Re: [10] Heroic Valiona & Theralion

Postby fafhrd » Wed Jun 22, 2011 3:01 pm

Audax wrote:I didn't understand that blackout strategy on first reading but on re-reading I realized like they are clumping as a moving group instead of as a stationary one to avoid taking damage from twilight blasts while clumped, which sounds like a great idea if you can do it. Only marking a moving melee would probably make it harder to sync up, as everyone would end up trailing behind the marked melee if they didn't have a track to cut to.


It only sounds like a great idea if you're having trouble keeping people alive through blackouts, and are willing to have people moving for longer (and hence losing cast-time) to make some of the damage possibly less.

We just have the blackout person run to the melee or the tank, make it go off, and he ducks out. People with a meteor on them run to the same place in the same way. Everyone else stays spread out and nukes the boss/heals, unless there's a blast aimed at them in which case they take a half-second to dodge it.

Not that the fight is a DPS race either, but making a fight unnecessarily longer to reduce the amount of healing per second needed seems a counterintuitive way to go about making things easier.
ImageImage
1/1 Lore pre-nerf.
User avatar
fafhrd
 
Posts: 5432
Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2007 2:31 pm

Re: [10] Heroic Valiona & Theralion

Postby Treck » Wed Jun 22, 2011 6:18 pm

Wait, so the strategy is to be moving while dispelling the debuff?
As in the whole group runs together still clumped up? Thats pretty hard to coordinate, and making sure its working, if even a single person slacks behind and doesnt share the blackout dmg, im pretty sure youve lost more than if you would have made sure everyone got blackout and a meteor or 2.
Also, harder to heal while moving, and less dps aswell.

I still dont see the problem with marking a meele (who doesnt move around obviously) and when blackout comes, you run into that meele, use some kind of CDs, dispell the debuff, then run out again.
You are going to take some dmg from the meteors but really isnt that big of a deal if you can gather and spread out fast.
What can kill people are if they dont notice when Blackout is dispelled and stay in for to long.

Also, a "superior" strategy doesnt autmaticly mean its easier to execute.
It might be superior in terms of reducing dmg taken at that specific point, but overall, with a possibly longer fight aswell? sure its not a "dps race" so to say, but it usually gets a bit hectic in the end anyway.
User avatar
Treck
 
Posts: 2129
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 8:10 am

Re: [10] Heroic Valiona & Theralion

Postby Audax » Thu Jun 23, 2011 12:20 am

Well, I have no heroic experience on this fight. But in normal at least, my experience is that:

-twilight blasts do a lot of damage while people are clumped up, which combines with damage from the blackout itself
-in practice, people do not all arrive at the stack point at the same time, and the blackout is dispelled while some are not stacked in order to prevent the people who are already stacked from taking more twilight blast damage
-healers have to move, hampering healing capability, even with a stationary stack point

It seems to me, from a theoretical standpoint, that the moving stack approach could even increase the number of people stacked since it provides a means for the slower/farther people to catch up.
Audax
 
Posts: 3
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2011 1:33 pm

Re: [10] Heroic Valiona & Theralion

Postby Treck » Thu Jun 23, 2011 1:03 am

Audax wrote:-twilight blasts do a lot of damage while people are clumped up, which combines with damage from the blackout itself
-in practice, people do not all arrive at the stack point at the same time, and the blackout is dispelled while some are not stacked in order to prevent the people who are already stacked from taking more twilight blast damage
-healers have to move, hampering healing capability, even with a stationary stack point

-Twilight blast does what? 20k dmg, pre ressists?
Sure its then 20k on everyone at once, when it hits, but you should have pretty much everyone on the blackout anyway meaning that the blackout dmg itself isnt that big.
If your cutting people from running in and soaking it, those who do are going to take a whole lot of damage and thats dangerous, if everyone is cut down to 30%, everyone is still alive, but if some doesnt stack, some players might go down to 10% and be very close to death if they get focused by the casters in the twilight realm.
-You dont dispell it the microsecond the blackout target reaches the mark, you give it a sec or two to make sure people are ontop of eachother, And theres loads of raidCDs to use for when you gather up.
-Theres loads of room in meele in 10man, if healers moving in is a big issue, have them stand in meele and gather up on them (one of them atleast) Unless your running with 5 meele in your 10man, you should have more than enough space.

Audax wrote:It seems to me, from a theoretical standpoint, that the moving stack approach could even increase the number of people stacked since it provides a means for the slower/farther people to catch up.

Why would you not have everyone stacking up on blackout anyway?
Seems way to risky to be dispelling blackout on the move, as you said yourself, healers are moving, and if the blackout target himself goes a bit to fast or slacks behind, hes going to hit maybe half the raid, beeing a lot worse.
User avatar
Treck
 
Posts: 2129
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 8:10 am

PreviousNext

Return to Cataclysm Raids (T11+)

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

Who is online

In total there is 1 user online :: 0 registered, 0 hidden and 1 guest (based on users active over the past 5 minutes)
Most users ever online was 380 on Tue Oct 14, 2008 6:28 pm

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest