[Druid] Bear Discussion

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Re: [Druid] Bear Discussion

Postby KysenMurrin » Sun Mar 06, 2011 12:56 pm

The fight places a debuff on a random group member that makes the crocs chase that person. It's not your job to tank them, they're meant to be kited and killed before they can do too much damage to that person.
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Re: [Druid] Bear Discussion

Postby bldavis » Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:41 pm

Skye1013 wrote:At what point did this steer away from bears...? Cause I think I missed it.

Polar bears are cool and koalas aren't actually bears! (See I'm on topic...)

you forgot panda bears, they are really closer relatives to raccoons then the ursus genus
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Re: [Druid] Bear Discussion

Postby Koatanga » Sun Mar 06, 2011 3:30 pm

KysenMurrin wrote:The fight places a debuff on a random group member that makes the crocs chase that person. It's not your job to tank them, they're meant to be kited and killed before they can do too much damage to that person.


See, as a pally tank I never knew that. Righteous Defense picks up three of them; hand of reckoning picks up the fourth. I've always tanked all of them.

I am surprised that hand of reckoning works on them, but challenging roar does not.
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Re: [Druid] Bear Discussion

Postby fuzzygeek » Sun Mar 06, 2011 5:41 pm

bldavis wrote:you forgot panda bears


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My bear always runs with the panda out. It looked better when I was a polar bear, but fuk tauren.
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Re: [Druid] Bear Discussion

Postby Skye1013 » Sun Mar 06, 2011 10:29 pm

So... if Pandarens were ever implemented... does that mean you could be a furry warrior bear tank?

And I never knew that about the crocs either, I can usually pick them up with DnD on my DK... and he's not the tank. I figure with plate and some ability to self heal, it's better they attack me than the healer (plus I can pop IBF if I really need to.)
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Re: [Druid] Bear Discussion

Postby Amirya » Mon Mar 07, 2011 4:31 pm

When I tank, I ignore the adds and pray that my dps/heals are smart enough to bring them to me.

Usually happens, but sometimes, I get the retard pugger that runs the other way.
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Re: [Druid] Bear Discussion

Postby Skye1013 » Mon Mar 07, 2011 10:40 pm

Amirya wrote:When I tank, I ignore the adds and pray that my dps/heals are smart enough to bring them to me.

Usually happens, but sometimes, I get the retard pugger that runs the other way.

This has the added benefit of "dealing with stupid" since the puggers that run away generally die :). It's like the Darwinism of WoW.
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Re: [Druid] Bear Discussion

Postby Koatanga » Sun Mar 20, 2011 7:33 pm

Frustraded with my bear's lack of pack-holding uberness when enrage is down, I have been leveling a DK tank. Now, she's only mid-70s, so balance is obviously out of whack, and she's dressed in full BoA gear, but OMG the difference in aggro is amazing.

I can roll my face on 2 buttons to maintain AoE threat. It's retardedly simple compared to the bear.

Bears have uber-mega AoE damage/threat once every 3 minutes (enrage + mangle), and lol AoE in between. I wonder what they can do to normalise that a bit.

I still have not used my bear on heroics. I have so many problems managing the adds pretty much any fight that has adds that I am positive I would kill my healer repeatedly. The hallway in Stonecore after the worm boss, where you have the wandering packs of fast-moving adds, I shudder to think about. There will be ass-pulls and wipes.

In normals it's not optimal but it's ok, because adds and ass-pulls are generally not so lethal. In heroics it's just going to be painful.

How about they remove the channel requirement for Hurricane for Feral druids?
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Re: [Druid] Bear Discussion

Postby semp » Mon Apr 04, 2011 10:07 am

I am about to start working on my feral gear for my druid to be able to tank heroics for insta queues, but this thread makes me wonder if I should continue down this path. I played bear tank all of T7-10 and while my aoe threat then was amazing, it was manageable with swipe and tab/mangles and maul. Is that no longer sufficient? Maybe making mangle hit a secondary target at reduced threat similar to heart strike for DKs would be a good upgrade to aoe threat.
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Re: [Druid] Bear Discussion

Postby bldavis » Mon Apr 04, 2011 10:17 am

Thrash is a decent threat move for those small packs
and in 4.1, swipe is on 3sec cd again

as long as we have a massive weapon to hit with, our aoe should be ok
all that will happen is we will be more reliant on cc then other tanks as our aoe is limited to 3 targets and we have no aoe circle (D&D,Cons,TClap)
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Brekkie:Tanks are like shitty DPS. And healers are like REALLY distracted DPS
Amirya:Why yes, your penis is longer than his because you hit 30k dps in the first 10 seconds. But guess what? That raid boss has a dick bigger than your ego.
Flex:I don't make mistakes. I execute carefully planned strategic group wipes.
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Re: [Druid] Bear Discussion

Postby Levantine » Mon Apr 04, 2011 12:47 pm

bldavis wrote:our aoe is limited to 3 targets, AoE circle -> Thunderclap

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Re: [Druid] Bear Discussion

Postby bldavis » Mon Apr 04, 2011 12:49 pm

i was thinking of cleave on a warrior
/tar self
/facepalm
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Brekkie:Tanks are like shitty DPS. And healers are like REALLY distracted DPS
Amirya:Why yes, your penis is longer than his because you hit 30k dps in the first 10 seconds. But guess what? That raid boss has a dick bigger than your ego.
Flex:I don't make mistakes. I execute carefully planned strategic group wipes.
Levie:(in /g) It's weird, I have a collar and I dont know where I got it from, Worgen are kinky!
Levie:Drunk Lev goes and does what he pleases just to annoy sober Lev.
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Re: [Druid] Bear Discussion

Postby Levantine » Mon Apr 04, 2011 12:52 pm

You also compared Thunderclap to a ground AoE like Cons and DnD.
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Re: [Druid] Bear Discussion

Postby Aanar » Mon Apr 04, 2011 12:53 pm

I have a paly tank, dk tank, and druid tank that I've all taken through several heroics. More groups than not are pretty good about focusing on skull first, then x, but a lot of groups still have that one dps that just wails on whatever they want. It seems like the pal and dk have an easier time dealing with this.

I think it's more than just the weaker threat from aoe moves. I miss things like shield toss, death grip, and strangulate (4 sec silence) that let me pull in a stray caster from range.
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Re: [Druid] Bear Discussion

Postby bldavis » Mon Apr 04, 2011 12:53 pm

too many tank alts

brain asplosion emminent
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Brekkie:Tanks are like shitty DPS. And healers are like REALLY distracted DPS
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Flex:I don't make mistakes. I execute carefully planned strategic group wipes.
Levie:(in /g) It's weird, I have a collar and I dont know where I got it from, Worgen are kinky!
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Re: [Druid] Bear Discussion

Postby Aanar » Mon Apr 04, 2011 3:07 pm

True enough. I have more fun playing around with a variety of chars than focusing on any one too much, so what can I say? When my warrior finishes his last two levels, he'll be my 7th level 85 char :oops:
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Re: [Druid] Bear Discussion

Postby cerwillis » Wed Jun 15, 2011 2:41 pm

OK, my bear Mistawillis is 81 and ready for some criticism. Don't worry, he has thick skin (He's a bear). I recently dropped some stam gems for agi and to add a little expertise, and things seem to be going quite well for him.

ST rotation: FFF - mangle - lacx3 - pulv - mangle - lac - maul - mangle - John f-in Madden. (prio Mangle with a 3 stack of Pulv up).

I'll need to build a new AoE rotation as I just got Thrash, but before I've more or less tabbed around doing the ST rotation with Swipes every 3 seconds, and trying to keep Pulverize up.

I have a POWA for Pulverize w/ timer and one for the CD of Mangle.

Anyhow, any advice on things I'm doing wrong (or right) would be appreciated.
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Re: [Druid] Bear Discussion

Postby bldavis » Wed Jun 15, 2011 4:11 pm

Aanar wrote:True enough. I have more fun playing around with a variety of chars than focusing on any one too much, so what can I say? When my warrior finishes his last two levels, he'll be my 7th level 85 char :oops:

same with my dk...she hit 84 last night and i think im going to push her to 85 today
that will give me 6 on SC and one on Drenden


huh?
ya i have heard about altoholics anonymous...
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Brekkie:Tanks are like shitty DPS. And healers are like REALLY distracted DPS
Amirya:Why yes, your penis is longer than his because you hit 30k dps in the first 10 seconds. But guess what? That raid boss has a dick bigger than your ego.
Flex:I don't make mistakes. I execute carefully planned strategic group wipes.
Levie:(in /g) It's weird, I have a collar and I dont know where I got it from, Worgen are kinky!
Levie:Drunk Lev goes and does what he pleases just to annoy sober Lev.
Sagara:You see, you need to *spread* the bun before you insert the hot dog.
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Re: [Druid] Bear Discussion

Postby bldavis » Wed Jun 15, 2011 4:31 pm

cerwillis wrote:OK, my bear Mistawillis is 81 and ready for some criticism. Don't worry, he has thick skin (He's a bear). I recently dropped some stam gems for agi and to add a little expertise, and things seem to be going quite well for him.

ST rotation: FFF - mangle - lacx3 - pulv - mangle - lac - maul - mangle - John f-in Madden. (prio Mangle with a 3 stack of Pulv up).

I'll need to build a new AoE rotation as I just got Thrash, but before I've more or less tabbed around doing the ST rotation with Swipes every 3 seconds, and trying to keep Pulverize up.

I have a POWA for Pulverize w/ timer and one for the CD of Mangle.

Anyhow, any advice on things I'm doing wrong (or right) would be appreciated.

you spec looks ok, when you start doing heroics i would suggest getting the magic damage reduc in resto

single tar rotation is pretty much spot on, it is alot of JFM
basically though its FFF to pull Mangle>Pulv(3 lac stack)>Lac(to 3)>Maul

when you get a burn phase(or pretty much just before you use berserk on a boss fight) get your pulv up
as for aoe, i dont worry about pulv, as it is just a higher crit chance, and stackin agil mostly you should have plenty of crit to get at least one or 5 off a typical pack

i use thrash-swipe-maul-swipe-maul-thrash-swipe-maul...etc.
maybe tab targeting a little to spread the maul love

if i get a chance ill take a ss of my ui in fight
i use PowerAuras with timers on mangle cd, and lac stack count
i prob should (and have planned to) make one for pulv time but i am too lazy and i just spam 3lc->pulv
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Brekkie:Tanks are like shitty DPS. And healers are like REALLY distracted DPS
Amirya:Why yes, your penis is longer than his because you hit 30k dps in the first 10 seconds. But guess what? That raid boss has a dick bigger than your ego.
Flex:I don't make mistakes. I execute carefully planned strategic group wipes.
Levie:(in /g) It's weird, I have a collar and I dont know where I got it from, Worgen are kinky!
Levie:Drunk Lev goes and does what he pleases just to annoy sober Lev.
Sagara:You see, you need to *spread* the bun before you insert the hot dog.
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Re: [Druid] Bear Discussion

Postby cerwillis » Thu Jun 16, 2011 8:07 am

Thanks for the quick response. I'm having a good time with this guy, I hope to have him in shape to do some easymode raids when 4.2 comes out. I ran a ToT without issue last night and got him a Porcelain Crab, and then added ~200 pts to his skinning.
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Re: [Druid] Bear Discussion

Postby Devistasion » Wed Jun 22, 2011 8:48 am

bldavis wrote:huh?
ya i have heard about altoholics anonymous...
no i wont go! i dont have a problem! i swear! :twisted:


LOL I have a problem... I just don't care. :twisted: :twisted:
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Re: [Druid] Bear Discussion

Postby cerwillis » Wed Jul 27, 2011 11:11 am

Answering Sherck's questions from the successes thread, as I have recently looked into a number of these. Please correct any wrongness:

-- There seems to be a large threat difference between when you have Enrage available for a trash pack (tab Mangle spam) and when you do not. Is there that large of a difference in AoE threat generation from using a Swipe / Thrash tab Maul approach and a tab Mangle spam with Enrage up?
Do you mean Berserk? That + Magle spam, preferably with a 3x pulv stack is your best threat/dmg rotation, but you cant use it very often. Thrash/Swipe/Maul+Tab Mangle is good for standard AoE in most cases.


-- On that note, what is the threat generation "ranking" of our attacks. since so much is put on tab Mangle spam under Engrage, is Mangle our top threat attack? Swipe? Maul? Mangle only when at 3x Lacerate? 2x Lacerate?
Not an easy question, but basically keep pulv up, keep mangle and thrash up on all targets and stack 3xlac on everything you can.

-- There appears to be a very lack of defensive CDs. Barkskin every 60 sec. Frenzied Regen every 3 min (but glyphed is that even really a defensive CD because it is no longer converting Rage to Health?). Enrage does nothing to increase survivability does it? I am not seeing much to string a chain together with.
Yup thats about it except trinkets. Keeping pulv up helps somewhat in increasing crit/SD procs, as does berserk.

-- I has a 365 weapon so I am not anticpating many threat issues when I start doing 5-man Heroics since many have commented that a good weapon = good threat for a bear? Comments? True? Not True?
I want to say true, but I could see how that might be very wrong.

-- Reforge priority is always to Dodge regardless of what stat it is? Is there a point of DR when going into Mastery makes more sense? I have 33.8% Dodge in this "starter" gear.
Yes, as there is no dodge on your gear otherwise, short of trinkets.

-- EJ appears to love the armor trinkets like the JP 359 one. Yes, no, maybe so? Mix of Stam and Agility or Armor? Double Agility? Double Stam? Double armor?
Yes, as the amount of armor you have is static to your ilevel now, so any chance to add it is good against melee. I use Agi/Armor double Agi, or an expertise trink with stacking agi if I want to cap stuff. Stam or resist trinkets would be good for magic, if I had one.

-- Guide said to follow socket bonuses for Agility and meta requirements. Otherwise, pure Agility. Thoughts?
Yes, but I still go Solid for blue sockets.

-- A good raid marker addon. I suck at marking targets and need to get MUCH better of it if I am going to be Pugging with this one.
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Re: [Druid] Bear Discussion

Postby bldavis » Wed Jul 27, 2011 1:09 pm

cerwillis wrote:Answering Sherck's questions from the successes thread, as I have recently looked into a number of these. Please correct any wrongness:

-- There seems to be a large threat difference between when you have Enrage available for a trash pack (tab Mangle spam) and when you do not. Is there that large of a difference in AoE threat generation from using a Swipe / Thrash tab Maul approach and a tab Mangle spam with Enrage up?
Do you mean Berserk? That + Magle spam, preferably with a 3x pulv stack is your best threat/dmg rotation, but you cant use it very often. Thrash/Swipe/Maul+Tab Mangle is good for standard AoE in most cases.
enrage will give you enough rage to mangle/thrash and with that (provided your dps wait 1-2 sec) you have threat and should be getting hit, generating more rage to swipe and maul
i only use berserk if i am REALLY losing threat on a trash pack, but that is rare even with my old 346 and 353 weapons, now with my new one? i doubt it. what i use for aoe is thrash-maul-swipe-maul-thrash-maul... and just tab around to spread out my mauls

-- On that note, what is the threat generation "ranking" of our attacks. since so much is put on tab Mangle spam under Engrage, is Mangle our top threat attack? Swipe? Maul? Mangle only when at 3x Lacerate? 2x Lacerate?
Not an easy question, but basically keep pulv up, keep mangle and thrash up on all targets and stack 3xlac on everything you can.
top threat is a mangle crit, but you need to keep pulv up for those big crits(savage defender), and if you can try to keep 3xlac up as much as possible. remember that mangle also boost the bleed damage of your thrash, so if you are in a hard dps burn that you are tanking, use thrash as well...it might get you a few 100 extra dps and help beat the boss down

-- There appears to be a very lack of defensive CDs. Barkskin every 60 sec. Frenzied Regen every 3 min (but glyphed is that even really a defensive CD because it is no longer converting Rage to Health?). Enrage does nothing to increase survivability does it? I am not seeing much to string a chain together with.
Yup thats about it except trinkets. Keeping pulv up helps somewhat in increasing crit/SD procs, as does berserk.
both of you are forgetting survival instincts. think of it as bear shield wall

-- I has a 365 weapon so I am not anticpating many threat issues when I start doing 5-man Heroics since many have commented that a good weapon = good threat for a bear? Comments? True? Not True?
I want to say true, but I could see how that might be very wrong.
weapon damage -> paw damage
iow more weapon dps - more paw dps (this works for both kitties and bears)

-- Reforge priority is always to Dodge regardless of what stat it is? Is there a point of DR when going into Mastery makes more sense? I have 33.8% Dodge in this "starter" gear.
Yes, as there is no dodge on your gear otherwise, short of trinkets.
short answer - yes
long answer - haste>hit>expir>crit>mastery as far as reforging and always to dodge (where else are you going to get it?)

-- EJ appears to love the armor trinkets like the JP 359 one. Yes, no, maybe so? Mix of Stam and Agility or Armor? Double Agility? Double Stam? Double armor?
Yes, as the amount of armor you have is static to your ilevel now, so any chance to add it is good against melee. I use Agi/Armor double Agi, or an expertise trink with stacking agi if I want to cap stuff. Stam or resist trinkets would be good for magic, if I had one.
what do you mean armor is static now? from gear alone yes, but bears do get bonus armor from agil still. i normally run with a armor/stam combo, for pure physical i would do armor/agil(or mastery) and for magic only i would do dual stam (as SD does nothing for magic just like block and bloodshield)

-- Guide said to follow socket bonuses for Agility and meta requirements. Otherwise, pure Agility. Thoughts?
Yes, but I still go Solid for blue sockets.
i actually use agil for almost every socket, and for blues i do a shifting dream emerald (sgil/stam)
you def want to use the armor/stam meta and make sure you get 2 yellows in, i prefer puissant gems for that and in a yellow socket if i can.

-- A good raid marker addon. I suck at marking targets and need to get MUCH better of it if I am going to be Pugging with this one.
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i actually need to get this as well :oops:

edit: as we get farther into progression i will prob start adding more and more stam hybrid and pure stam gems as the health requirements go up
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Brekkie:Tanks are like shitty DPS. And healers are like REALLY distracted DPS
Amirya:Why yes, your penis is longer than his because you hit 30k dps in the first 10 seconds. But guess what? That raid boss has a dick bigger than your ego.
Flex:I don't make mistakes. I execute carefully planned strategic group wipes.
Levie:(in /g) It's weird, I have a collar and I dont know where I got it from, Worgen are kinky!
Levie:Drunk Lev goes and does what he pleases just to annoy sober Lev.
Sagara:You see, you need to *spread* the bun before you insert the hot dog.
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Re: [Druid] Bear Discussion

Postby cerwillis » Wed Jul 27, 2011 3:39 pm

I need to check my info on the armor comment. Thanks for the insight bl.

Edit: even in aoe I tend to throw mangle around for the crits and plus to bleeds, but that appears to be optional in decent gear.
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Re: [Druid] Bear Discussion

Postby cerwillis » Wed Jul 27, 2011 4:37 pm

cerwillis wrote:I need to check my info on the armor comment.

I'm sorry to burst your bubble on this one, but we don't get armor from agi anymore. It happened the same time as it did for the other tanks. We just get to keep dodge from it.

Edit: (I just tested in game.)
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