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Parry dodge ub 4.2

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Parry dodge ub 4.2

Postby yappo » Mon Jun 13, 2011 1:09 am

This is not an attempt to reopen the thread with a similar topic.

I'm aware we'll aim at getting identical parry/dodge raidbuffed come 4.2.

My question is if there are numbers on aproximate ub numbers (apart from 'keep dodge marginally higher than parry').

As I'm raiding casually I tend to get questions from players who raid even less frequently than I do, and giving them numbers raidbuffed often helps very little as they have problems getting the specs together that's needed for all buffs while they're reforging.
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Re: Parry dodge ub 4.2

Postby Chicken » Mon Jun 13, 2011 7:04 am

As close to having your parry rating 155 lower than dodge rating as possible should be what you'd aim for unbuffed. You get 549 strength from Strength of Earth/Battle Shout/Horn of Winter/Hunter Pet Equivalent, 5% extra from Kings turns that into 576 strength, 27% of that gets converted to parry rating which is where the 155 comes from.
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Re: Parry dodge ub 4.2

Postby yappo » Mon Jun 13, 2011 7:47 am

Chicken wrote:As close to having your parry rating 155 lower than dodge rating as possible should be what you'd aim for unbuffed. You get 549 strength from Strength of Earth/Battle Shout/Horn of Winter/Hunter Pet Equivalent, 5% extra from Kings turns that into 576 strength, 27% of that gets converted to parry rating which is where the 155 comes from.


Ah, and then I guess I also add 27% of 5% of my ub strength, in my case 3200 * 0.05 * 0.27 = 48? So in the order of about 200 more dodge rating than parry?
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Re: Parry dodge ub 4.2

Postby Chicken » Mon Jun 13, 2011 10:43 am

yappo wrote:
Chicken wrote:As close to having your parry rating 155 lower than dodge rating as possible should be what you'd aim for unbuffed. You get 549 strength from Strength of Earth/Battle Shout/Horn of Winter/Hunter Pet Equivalent, 5% extra from Kings turns that into 576 strength, 27% of that gets converted to parry rating which is where the 155 comes from.


Ah, and then I guess I also add 27% of 5% of my ub strength, in my case 3200 * 0.05 * 0.27 = 48? So in the order of about 200 more dodge rating than parry?
Basically yeah. Alternatively (as Paladin) you can just buff yourself with Kings and then check if your parry rating is 155 lower, but that wouldn't be too helpful for any Warriors or Death Knights you're explaining things to.
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Re: Parry dodge ub 4.2

Postby yappo » Mon Jun 13, 2011 5:14 pm

Chicken wrote:
yappo wrote:
Chicken wrote:As close to having your parry rating 155 lower than dodge rating as possible should be what you'd aim for unbuffed. You get 549 strength from Strength of Earth/Battle Shout/Horn of Winter/Hunter Pet Equivalent, 5% extra from Kings turns that into 576 strength, 27% of that gets converted to parry rating which is where the 155 comes from.


Ah, and then I guess I also add 27% of 5% of my ub strength, in my case 3200 * 0.05 * 0.27 = 48? So in the order of about 200 more dodge rating than parry?
Basically yeah. Alternatively (as Paladin) you can just buff yourself with Kings and then check if your parry rating is 155 lower, but that wouldn't be too helpful for any Warriors or Death Knights you're explaining things to.


Yep, but 200 is a round and nice number. It's easy to grasp, even if I add that they could check status raidbuffed to check if they really ended up optimally.

Besides, it's not like you can tweak with much finer granularity than 20 - 30 anyway, and not everyone likes standing by the reforger swapping back and forth between dodge and parry for 10 gold each try ;)
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Re: Parry dodge ub 4.2

Postby Fetzie » Tue Jun 14, 2011 6:53 am

Don't forget that base strength, as well as the first ten strength, does not contribute parry rating.
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Re: Parry dodge ub 4.2

Postby yappo » Tue Jun 14, 2011 7:09 am

Pyrea wrote:Don't forget that base strength, as well as the first ten strength, does not contribute parry rating.


Ah, good point.

Still, does buffed base strength (neckid pally and BoK) contribute?

Not that it matters all that much as we're talking 0.05 * 0.27 * whatever-base-stregth-is.

I'm assuming that the ub parry stated on our character sheet already takes into account that base + 10 doesn't count. And that it does indeed include the 27% parry from strength that does matter. I think I saw a not here that it did, in difference from dodge and the corresponding agility.

Hmm, I have an indicator that it does. I made a blog post before which I noticed that my dodge-rating was atrocious, but the resulting dodge/parry percentages were more or less just fine (agility gear ftw). And I should probably check my parry rating in my PvP set and not just look at the huge difference between dodge and parry percentages.
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Re: Parry dodge ub 4.2

Postby Chicken » Tue Jun 14, 2011 7:46 am

Pyrea wrote:Don't forget that base strength, as well as the first ten strength, does not contribute parry rating.
As far as I'm aware all bonus strength from Kings does however, since yappo wants to find out how much lower your parry rating should be unbuffed for it be equal to dodge rating while buffed we only have to figure out how much bonus parry rating you get in total from buffs. We don't need to aim for figuring out exactly how much parry rating we're getting since we're not interested in that part.

Anyway, since I'm sure people will appreciate it, handy macro for figuring out exactly how much lower parry rating would be optimal when completely unbuffed:

/run local _,strength = UnitStat("player",1); ChatFrame1:AddMessage(format("Optimal amount parry rating should be below dodge rating while unbuffed: %.2f",(strength * 0.05 + 549 * 1.05) * 0.27))
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Re: Parry dodge ub 4.2

Postby Celyn » Thu Jun 16, 2011 12:39 pm

Dont forget to add 90 if your using dodge food. Don't need to worry about it if your using mastery food. But i figure that many of us will be block capped in 4.2 so it might be needed to added.
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Re: Parry dodge ub 4.2

Postby yappo » Thu Jun 16, 2011 6:40 pm

Celyn wrote:Dont forget to add 90 if your using dodge food. Don't need to worry about it if your using mastery food. But i figure that many of us will be block capped in 4.2 so it might be needed to added.


Ah, that reminds me. The feasts, what do they give tanks apart from 90 strength? Many raids just go for a cauldron and, sine a couple of months, a feast, so individual food could just see the same decline as individual flasks did.
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Re: Parry dodge ub 4.2

Postby Rhiannon » Thu Jun 16, 2011 9:08 pm

If you're tank specced you get 90 dodge from the feast (no strength).
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Re: Parry dodge ub 4.2

Postby yappo » Thu Jun 16, 2011 9:19 pm

Rhiannon wrote:If you're tank specced you get 90 dodge from the feast (no strength).


90 stamina, not strength. Sorry about the brainfart.
Thanks for the info.
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Re: Parry dodge ub 4.2

Postby Glowry » Sun Jun 26, 2011 3:33 am

I actually have a question about this subject:

1) I understand that dodge and parry rating give the same percentage/point, and they suffer from the same diminishing returns curve, but do you evaluate the diminishing returns curve based off of dodge and parry rating, or based off of dodge and parry percent? (Even after 4.2, when agility does not contribute to dodge %, our starting dodge and parry % are still different (ie when completely naked)).
- From the answers above, getting your dodge and parry rating to equate while raid buff would indicate that the DR curve is based on rating.
- But my understanding of the equation posted on EJ at: http://elitistjerks.com/f15/t29453-comb ... cataclysm/
would indicate it's based off of the actual dodge and parry %.
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Re: Parry dodge ub 4.2

Postby Jeremoot » Sun Jun 26, 2011 9:06 am

Glowry wrote:I understand that dodge and parry rating give the same percentage/point


Glowry wrote:...but do you evaluate the diminishing returns curve based off of dodge and parry rating, or based off of dodge and parry percent?


You answered your own question, they have the same base value now, so to have equivalent dodge and parry percent you need to have equal dodge and parry rating (after taking into account buffs).
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Re: Parry dodge ub 4.2

Postby theckhd » Sun Jun 26, 2011 9:59 am

Base dodge is being buffed from ~3.9% to 5% in 4.2. So they will have the same base value, and the same scaling with rating. As such, equalizing rating and equalizing percentage will be identical operations.
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