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New tanking class ideas

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Re: New tanking class ideas

Postby KysenMurrin » Mon Jun 06, 2011 11:54 am

I don't think I'd actually want it to happen, but it is interesting to think about what they could do. We already have a taunt and a minor damage cooldown; Wolves could give their threat to the caster like Dancing Rune Weapon, and have the healing component tuned up a little; the Stoneclaw Totem's absorb shield could be worked into another tank cooldown.

Edit: They'd have to make Earth Shield baseline.
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Re: New tanking class ideas

Postby Kelaan » Mon Jun 06, 2011 12:37 pm

I think the issue is not a lack of compelling classes or Ways To Tank, but rather a shortage of people WILLING to tank. And heal, sometimes, too, but mainly to tank (if dungeon queues are an indicator). ANOTHER hero class that can tank likely won't make people choose to tank, unless the person already has the tanking mojo -- in which case they're often already tanking on Something now.
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Re: New tanking class ideas

Postby Shyrtandros » Mon Jun 06, 2011 1:25 pm

If indeed another hero class is coming...

I would expect it to be some form of a caster. (If they could tank I would love it)

Maybe something along the lines of a "bard" or something.
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Re: New tanking class ideas

Postby Aerron » Mon Jun 06, 2011 1:25 pm

Kelaan wrote: ANOTHER hero class that can tank likely won't make people choose to tank, unless the person already has the tanking mojo -- in which case they're often already tanking on Something now.


This is the major reason I'm opposed to another tanking hero class. Most of the people I know who rolled DKs to tank were already tanking on another class. There was no net gain. Adding another such class would likely have the exact same result, and somehow end up further muddying the itemization waters.

I'd advocate adding the absent rolls to a talent tree of the "pure" DPS classes simply because I'm sick of hearing the "well, when Rogues can tank and heal like druids, then I'll ..." arguments.
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Re: New tanking class ideas

Postby Shyrtandros » Mon Jun 06, 2011 1:52 pm

Also the defense comment about "We can't do that because it would be OP in PVP" is not a valid arguement if you consider this.

Blizzard can completely change the way spells work for PVE / PVP effects. (+300% mitigation for PVE +30% for PVP)
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Re: New tanking class ideas

Postby Koatanga » Mon Jun 06, 2011 3:44 pm

I think it should be a vehicle class. Personally, I would scrap engineering as a profession and make it into a class, but if not then call it a Tinker class. It would be energy-based like a rogue.

The trees would be engineering specialties:

Mechanical Engineering creates vehicles and uses them to fight with. Like the feral druid tree, this would encompass the tanking and melee DPS roles. The tank would be a wheeled/tracked vehicle created from pieces of armour - the tank himself would be basically in his skivvies. Possibly there could be a passenger compartment for additional flavour/lols. The DPS would wear his armour like a mech suit.

Biological Engineering would be the healing tree. They would heal via nano-bots, injections, gene therapy, etc. They would equip a dart gun that would fire various instant heals/cures, and use nano-bots and genetics for damage prevention and HoTs. They would be strong with HoTs and damage prevention - sort of a druid/disc blend in flavour. Healers would be a bit crippled in sustained-heavy-damage periods, but would have infinite longevity at maximum potential (due to contant energy regen), whereas other healing classes run out of mana or need downtime or reduced-effectiveness time to recover mana. A mechanic similar to adrenaline rush could be called upon for burst situations.

Chemical engineering would be a ranged DPS class, primarily relying on acids and gasses, though not without a literal nuke. The primary weapon would be a launcher that can be loaded with various different things to launch. The "flavour" of this spec would revolve around pre-loading the launcher with the things needed for the coming fight, with load-outs taking some time (but doable in-fight) as a penalty for getting it wrong. Launches would be instant-cast, perhaps with cooldowns varying with the thing launched, but reloads would require down-time. In PvP, an engineer caught with an empty launcher would be a sitting duck, but with a full clip would be a force to be reckoned with. They would be a bit like DK runes, if a DK was allowed to select which runes he wanted for a fight instead of starting with two of each type.


The engineer would use energy to power its mechs, bots, and launchers, so would use an energy toolbar like a rogue.

I am unsure which armour types the engineer would use. Perhaps it could even be a variety - mail and plate for the mechs, cloth and leather for the bio and chemical.

I would, in the patch that introduces this class, dispose entirely of intellect plate. Paladins would have a holy talent to convert physical stats into int/mana/spirit.
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Re: New tanking class ideas

Postby Shoju » Tue Jun 07, 2011 7:07 am

While I REALLY enjoy the overall idea of your post koat, I doubt we will see something like that sadly. Very well thought out ideas though.
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Re: New tanking class ideas

Postby Dantriges » Tue Jun 07, 2011 10:06 am

Blizzard could probably change what they want for PvP but it seems, they are really reluctant to do so unless it´s a CC ability.
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Re: New tanking class ideas

Postby Koatanga » Tue Jun 07, 2011 6:36 pm

Shoju wrote:While I REALLY enjoy the overall idea of your post koat, I doubt we will see something like that sadly. Very well thought out ideas though.


I don't think it would ever see the light of day, either. It would, however, address many things:

1: A class with fresh mechanics (in this case literally).
2: Candy for people who like vehicles, without forcing people who hate vehicles to use them.
3: Fun in the quirky gnome/goblin sense.
4: The tanking-vehicle concept could be used to alleviate dungeon queues. Have one inside the door that a DPS could drive. Allow DPS to queue as tank-drivers. They could even qualify for the call of duty reward so they can stop QQing the unfairness of it all.
5: Make engineering relavent.
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Re: New tanking class ideas

Postby Jackinthegreen » Wed Jun 08, 2011 5:01 am

Having Enhance tank actually wouldn't take much tweaking. We already have 2 2h tank classes and 2 shield classes, so a DW class works perfectly and adds spice. Combat Rogues could also do that. Hunters can already tank with their pets, and in some cases it's actually preferred (Argoloth for example.)

In all likelihood though, we won't be seeing another class until Blizzard is REALLY comfortable with it. As much as I'd like 12 classes, three for each kind of armor, it'll really muck things up for a bit (read: entire expansion) while Blizz tweaks everything.
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Re: New tanking class ideas

Postby bldavis » Wed Jun 08, 2011 10:28 am

but wrath was in no way a clusterfuck!


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Re: New tanking class ideas

Postby Bladesong » Tue Jun 14, 2011 6:03 pm

Honestly, if Blizzard has some cool ideas for abilities, I'd rather see them completely revamp an existing spec than add a new class in. For example, make Fury an unarmed brawler spec or make Beast Mastery a melee pet spec. Adding in a new class simply dilutes the good ideas that they come up with and causes a ridiculous overload of that class. I will never forget leveling my Paladin at the beginning of Wrath, going into Alterac Valley and being one of only four non-DKs in the BG - I almost vomited from the vertigo caused by being deathgripped every other second :lol:

If people want a new tanking class, I'd say use the Hunter. Beast Mastery would either become a melee spec with the pet acting as some sort of "shield" or allow the Hunter to stay ranged but take most of the damage done to the pet. They'd need a druid style mechanic to allow chain and chain stats to scale up. My issue with Shaman tanking is that it becomes another shield class.

I like the idea of an evasion tank or a mage tank, but they'd either end up as niche tanks or completely overpowered. Druids and DKs have had their more unique tanking mechanics eliminated and replaced with ones that function more like a block. And some ideas, like evasion tanking, sound good, but run into a lot of implementation trouble. Who do you want to heal: the guy who can mitigate most of the incoming damage or a guy who might have an unlucky streak that causes them to take massive spike damage? Someone (on another forum I think) pointed out that evasion tanking would require a completely different attack table that uses the concept of a "glancing blow" that only does partial damage. Unfortunately, at that point you functionally have another shield tank.

An honest question about Rift (I haven't played it yet because the LAST thing I need is another MMO :shock: ) - with all those class combos, how many are viable? And has anyone done WoW levels of in depth theory crafting on how they stack up against each other? During Vanilla WoW I played a Human Pally with talents taken from all three trees and had no problem leveling and successfully ran a lot of instances. If Recount had been common in the general population at that time, I probably would have been kicked from most runs before the first pull :lol:
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Re: New tanking class ideas

Postby Aerron » Wed Jun 15, 2011 5:54 am

Bladesong wrote:An honest question about Rift (I haven't played it yet because the LAST thing I need is another MMO :shock: ) - with all those class combos, how many are viable? And has anyone done WoW levels of in depth theory crafting on how they stack up against each other?


A lot of the theory crafting over there is still in development.

But as for the class combos, they're all pretty viable, pre-raid. I've done runs with a cleric tank (Justicar) and though I haven't run with a rogue tank yet, I've heard from friends who have that they're pretty sturdy. The healing mages (Chloromancer) are pretty decent, I've had one as my main healer on a couple of runs now. A guild I know uses a Cleric as its MT for most of their 5 man runs.

As far as end game goes though, the cleric/rogue tanks and mage healers are sort of in the same boat that paladin and druid tanks were in at the start to mid of TBC. IE, good for 5 mans, but a lot of guilds weren't sure they wanted to try them for the Big Show. Hopefully that changes for them at some point.
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Re: New tanking class ideas

Postby Astronomic » Mon Jun 27, 2011 8:43 am

I dont think they really need another class, but if they did I would love to see something like a chloromancer from rift. You take life from the enemy to give it to the party, maybe make this a warlock spec idk. Blizz tried doing that with smite healing priests but chloromancer was just pulled off much better.

Chloro's were actually doing more healing than clerics in rift, while having a "life tap" type ability causign them to almost never run out of mana; idk what guilds on your server are thinking.
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Re: New tanking class ideas

Postby Kelaan » Mon Jun 27, 2011 1:52 pm

Shadow priest? ;) I think they nerfed the heck out of it, but perhaps if it were intended to be a healer role then that might make sense. Kinda hard to not make that seem totally OP, though: you can have tank, healer, 3 DPS, OR you can have tank, 3.5 dps, healer. Most would choose the latter, even when wiser players might not.
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