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All Things Mr. Robot!

Get help with your character's gear

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Re: Mr. Robot's Gear Optimizer

Postby NYRIN1 » Thu May 19, 2011 2:01 pm

theothersteve7 wrote:Mastery is just flat better than parry and dodge for tankadins. Reforging all your gear to mastery gives you an enormous survivability boost that you'd have to be uninformed not to take. I'd say it's more important than enchanting.

The optimizer presumably favors parry over dodge for you because you have a whole lot of dodge on your gear. Dodge and parry have diminishing returns, meaning the more of each you have, the less you get per point of rating. However, they don't care how much the other one has. As an example, you you have no dodge and 30% parry, one point of parry rating is going to give you much less avoidance than one dodge rating. It's not an enormous difference for normal gear, however. Ignoring this altogether might cost you a fraction of a percent of avoidance.



It favors parry because of DR yes, But its because it also knows you will be getting raid buffs. If you look at the "show stats" tab - there is "unbuffed" and "raid buffed". You will see that you get more buffs to your dodge than your parry so you want to be a bit more parry heavy in the reforging to compensate for the DR.

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Re: Mr. Robot's Gear Optimizer

Postby KysenMurrin » Wed Jun 01, 2011 9:27 am

So I've been using Ask Mr Robot for my reforging, and I noticed that it says the Heroic Porcelain Crab (from H ToT, 346 blue) is best in slot, even at heroic raid level. How does it come to that conclusion?
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Re: Mr. Robot's Gear Optimizer

Postby Flex » Wed Jun 01, 2011 9:42 am

Quick guess being the massive mastery proc.
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Re: Mr. Robot's Gear Optimizer

Postby NYRIN1 » Wed Jun 01, 2011 9:52 am

Flex wrote:Quick guess being the massive mastery proc.


you would be correct
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Re: Mr. Robot's Gear Optimizer

Postby KysenMurrin » Wed Jun 01, 2011 9:58 am

Does the optimiser account for block capping at all?
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Re: Mr. Robot's Gear Optimizer

Postby Firann » Sun Jun 05, 2011 8:16 am

While changing stamina to 67 as Theck suggested makes the geming / enchanting more stamina heavy, a third option would be to leave stamina at 66 and drop mastery to 99 (from 100). This ends up in proposing mastery/stam gems all around for blue and yellow sockets for those who prefer the middle of the road :)
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Re: Mr. Robot's Gear Optimizer

Postby boneyjellyfish » Sun Jun 05, 2011 9:08 am

KysenMurrin wrote:Does the optimiser account for block capping at all?

I can't imagine it does, since a lot of the mastery from the porcelain crab proc would be completely wasted if it's used by anyone that gears properly.
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Re: Mr. Robot's Gear Optimizer

Postby econ21 » Fri Jun 10, 2011 11:29 am

Can anyone explain to me how we should balance parry and dodge? After optimising my gear, Mr Robot's leaves me at have 13.47% parry and 12.6% dodge after raid buffs. I thought we were aiming for equal dodge and parry for diminishing returns?

Looking at my unoptimised gear, it seems from Mr Robot that raid buffs add 2% dodge and 1.14% parry. So I infer I should aim for unbuffed 10.6% dodge and 12.33% parry.

This is rather different from the rules of thumb I thought I had picked up from this forum - I thought it was go for about 1% higher parry unbuffed, rather than 1.73%.

I'm confused and would rather be able to work this out myself, rather than rely on Mr Robot (although it is a pretty amazing tool), if only to save on reforging costs.
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Re: Mr. Robot's Gear Optimizer

Postby Digren » Fri Jun 10, 2011 11:42 am

econ21 wrote:Can anyone explain to me how we should balance parry and dodge? After optimising my gear, Mr Robot's leaves me at have 13.47% parry and 12.6% dodge after raid buffs. I thought we were aiming for equal dodge and parry for diminishing returns?

Looking at my unoptimised gear, it seems from Mr Robot that raid buffs add 2% dodge and 1.14% parry. So I infer I should aim for unbuffed 10.6% dodge and 12.33% parry.

This is rather different from the rules of thumb I thought I had picked up from this forum - I thought it was go for about 1% higher parry unbuffed, rather than 1.73%.

I'm confused and would rather be able to work this out myself, rather than rely on Mr Robot (although it is a pretty amazing tool), if only to save on reforging costs.

It's only equal dodge and parry after 4.2 when the baseline amount of both not subject to diminishing returns will be equal.

Until then, even raid buffed, you need different amounts of both to be at the same places on the diminishing returns curves.

Take a look at the Tabular Mastery / Avoidance Equivalence Tables I created a few weeks back. I did this to "unroll" the math so-to-speak, making it possible for anyone to see the data and figure out equivalent points themselves.

The key point is that only 3.9705% of your dodge is not subject to diminishing returns, while 5% of your parry is not. Thus when you are at equal points on the DR curves you will have more parry than dodge.

You can see this on my tables. On the dodge table, at 12.6% dodge it takes 2.811 additional dodge rating to gain the same amount of combat table coverage as one mastery rating. On the parry table, at 13.6% parry it takes about the same (2.808 additional parry rating) to gain the same amount of combat table coverage as one mastery rating. Even though you have a full percent more parry, you are at the same place on each DR curve.

If you were balanced to be even, though, at 12.6% parry it takes only 2.712 additional parry rating for the same CTC as 1 mastery rating. Clearly at this point someone on the parry DR curve isn't as far along, because they are gaining more value per point.

In short: raid buffed, ~1.03% more parry than dodge is optimal.
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askmrrobot

Postby Arees » Tue Jun 14, 2011 4:28 pm

A friend showed the site askmrrobot.com to me a little while back and I noticed that for prot pallies the stat weightings are off, so its not very accurate. It shows dodge and parry being above mastery for reducing damage, so it tells me that a lot of my gear is sub optimal. It seems you can adjust the stat weights though, but I have no idea what to set them to. Does anyone know what they should be?

Also, does anyone know if the stat weightings it uses for ret are correct? It'd be awesome to be able to use it to optimize my dps spec as well.
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Re: askmrrobot

Postby Thanistor » Tue Jun 14, 2011 4:37 pm

Those are actually the Theck-approved values. He's one of their contributors.
I think he said bump stamina up by one if you want it to favor stamina more for hard modes.

Oh, I believe the reasoning is that diminishing returns on dodge and parry are taken into account by the program.
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Re: askmrrobot

Postby halabar » Tue Jun 14, 2011 4:53 pm

I use that site for other classes as well.

What you have to remember is that when looking at individual gear comparisons, some stats (like hit for dps classes) can be weighted too heavily.

But it does work as a very nice reference to at least get you in the ballpark.
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Re: askmrrobot

Postby Arees » Tue Jun 14, 2011 5:02 pm

Thanistor wrote:Those are actually the Theck-approved values. He's one of their contributors.

Oh, I believe the reasoning is that diminishing returns on dodge and parry are taken into account by the program.


I can't seem to find any posts from Theck that deal with mitigation (only the threat thread), but I thought that mastery was point for point better than dodge and parry for reducing incoming damage?
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Re: askmrrobot

Postby theckhd » Tue Jun 14, 2011 5:51 pm

Arees wrote:
Thanistor wrote:Those are actually the Theck-approved values. He's one of their contributors.

Oh, I believe the reasoning is that diminishing returns on dodge and parry are taken into account by the program.


I can't seem to find any posts from Theck that deal with mitigation (only the threat thread), but I thought that mastery was point for point better than dodge and parry for reducing incoming damage?


Their weightings are chosen for overall damage reduction, and are calculated directly from the equations in the Derivations thread.

Dodge and parry are better than mastery for reducing damage before diminishing returns comes in, which is why their weightings have them at the top. Their program calculates the diminishing returns on dodge and parry for you, so it properly devalues them as you get more. That's why, for example, it's suggesting mastery gems rather than dodge gems.
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Re: askmrrobot

Postby Arees » Tue Jun 14, 2011 10:29 pm

Ok... I see what it's doing now I suppose. My next question, which probably belongs in the gearing sections, but since I've already got this thread started I'll ask it here. Askmrrobot is saying to gem straight mastery in yellow slots and stam/mastery in blue. I've been doing the exact opposite and I gem stam in blue and stam/mastery in yellow (and stam/parry in red if the bonus is good). It also says to replace my 40 stam wrist enchant with 50 dodge rating. Is that a smart way to gem? I can't check your armory theck... you logged out in ret gear :(

I've been away from the game since January and am just now coming back. I'm trying to get some of the ZA/ZG gear and get caught up with my guild. We've only just fully cleared all 12 bosses and are just starting on heroic mode early bosses.
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