i take way too much damage

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i take way too much damage

Postby Fath » Thu Jun 02, 2011 9:36 pm

according to people in random heroics .. i am taking way too much damage.
I recently just returned to the game and started tanking again. I have my rotations
down but healers are saying is wrong.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/zuljin/joxxer/simple

there is a link to my armory .. what am i doing wrong? at this rate i feel like it was a mistake
coming back.

i know i need to get my head and shoulder enchant which i am currently working on.
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Re: i take way too much damage

Postby Chasey » Thu Jun 02, 2011 11:14 pm

Ya, I'm not seeing where there is an issue. I think the gear looks good, the spec is solid and you know there are a few things to work on. I'd start working on TB daillies to get the mastery trinket and upgrade what you can. Maybe put a mastery gem in the relic.

Don't let them break you down. You are doing things correctly, you have things enchanted, gemmed and reforged. A couple things might be going on; Healers are used to healing higher geared tanks now, no one wants to CC mobs and wrath's GOGOGO is back.

A few things you can do to help is: use mastery food, get elixers of mastery and MAKE your DPS CC mobs to make the load less on the healers who might be undergeared. Lets face it the cream of the crop are not running T1 Cata heroics any longer its alts and people who don't want to run the "harder" ZA/ZG runs.

As it looks to me, you are more than geared enough to do ZA/ZG and I bet you find that the healers in those runs complain about how squishy you are in there. Can you improve, of course as it sits things are fine.
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Re: i take way too much damage

Postby Levantine » Fri Jun 03, 2011 1:14 am

Are you using cooldowns appropriately? Tanks these days have cooldowns coming out of their ears and should absolutely be using them on trash packs that often hit harder than bosses.
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Re: i take way too much damage

Postby Aerron » Fri Jun 03, 2011 8:28 am

Levantine wrote:Are you using cooldowns appropriately? Tanks these days have cooldowns coming out of their ears and should absolutely be using them on trash packs that often hit harder than bosses.


This is a pretty important point. Depending on your race/profession you would have at least 3 damage reduction CDs. Divine Protection is on a 2 min CD, meaning that even in some Heroic fights you'd be able to use it at least twice. Even Lay on Hands is only 7 minutes, if glyphed.

In the past, Tanks could be stingy with the CDs, because they were on long timers and the like (eg, Shield Wall for Warriors being on a half-hour timer). But now, we have so many CDs all on 2 or 3 min timers, it's really counter productive to save them.

This isn't to say you shouldn't play smart with them. It's not a bad idea to hold onto one for a real "oh shit!" moment, but you should have plenty.
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Re: i take way too much damage

Postby Fath » Fri Jun 03, 2011 8:52 am

Yes I do use my cooldowns all the time. I am not stingy with them at all.
How is my parry/dodge? too low ? I am going to gem mastery in my relic and maybe also
in the prismatic sockets.
I do also have the elementium shield with the socket .. wondering if I should use that instead with a
mastery gem in there as well.

I am supposed to raid for the first time in cat tonite .. we will see how it goes.

as far as doing ZA/ZG .. i did some of ZA and it seems fine .. as far as ZG .. every random i get it is rushing
and i have never done it before so I dont know what is what .. so I kind of stay away from the t2 heroics for now
so grinding for valor points has been poor
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Re: i take way too much damage

Postby Lolpaladins » Sat Jun 04, 2011 4:07 pm

There are lots of things that could be the issue, it could be the healer thinks you're standing in "void zones" too long, or you are using your cooldowns at the wrong time (ie: after you already get low, instead of preemptively knowing when the damage spike is going to occur, like right as a cc/hoj fades or when a mob enrages) even if you're using them "all the time", you may not be using them "correctly"

Every single heroic is different, but take, for example, Grim Batol.

I am geared "out the ass" for the T1 heroics, and I still use at least 1 cc on the bigger pulls with the harder hitting mobs (the big elementals especially), and I blow a big cooldown at the start of every big pull (and then immediately follow up with a lesser cooldown as soon as the big cooldown fades). If you aren't interrupting/stunning important trash abilities, you may be taking extreme amounts of damage (ex: whirlwind from big ogres). Unfortunately many of those abilities just require experience to know which ones hurt the worst and are best to hoj on, or pop a cooldown on.

Then the bosses:

Against the Troll boss, a good tank will not get hit with any shockwaves or blitz, AND be picking up all the non-malignant trolls. If everything is on the tank, it makes the healers job easier. If the trolls are running all over the place, the "tank" will be taking too much damage because the damage will be unhealable... and yea, shockwave isn't going to kill you as a tank, but it WILL run your healer OOM. Maybe you turn your back to the boss to pick up trolls instead of strafing sideways to gain position...

The next boss, If he is using his swords, there isn't much you can do outside of using cooldowns if you notice the healer is slacking on the dispell and you see the debuff at 2 or more. If he is using his mace though, Some tanks SUCK at kiting, and/or holding aggro WHILE not getting hit, especially if he maces first. (use all ranged abilities, wait for the dps to get to above you in threat but before the pull aggro, taunt, and then use all your ranged abilities again) use 2nd taunt (ranged abilities) first taunt is off cooldown (immediately use ranged abilities again). A "bad tank" will taunt after someone pulls aggro. a "bad tank" will maybe not taunt at all. If he is in shield mode, a good tank will take ZERO damage that is not AOE. A bad tank will take a couple hits of fire because he isn't anticipating and proactively moving. Or will run through fire, or make a bad kite path during mace phase or stand in the falling rocks.

A good tank will recognize when a healer is stunned/cc'ed from the packs after the 2nd boss and interrupt THEN (and not worry about dps getting cc'ed). A bad tank will just die and wonder why.


I mean there are a million suggestions on every single trash pack and every single boss fight where a good tank can take less damage than a bad tank, even with gear being equal. It's both skill and experience. It would take hours to list them all.
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Re: i take way too much damage

Postby dereth » Mon Jun 20, 2011 8:32 pm

I get this same reaction when I am tanking. I have all 346+ gear except a 333 trinket (mastery trinket) and some 316 boots. I have well over the ilvl required to get into ZA/ZG randoms though. I even had a guy tell me I was under geared...

I do realize after reading this thread though that I should be using my cooldowns a lot more.
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Re: i take way too much damage

Postby masterpoobaa » Mon Jun 20, 2011 11:04 pm

Yep, Mastery food/elixirs is good.
Using cooldowns is good. Don't be afraid to use LOH. Its a shame you are not a Spacegoat. Gift of Naaru scales with health nicely.

Your trinkets have cooldowns too.
That JC stam trinket has a good dodge bonus proc.
The other trinket: +str is less than ideal, but +str will still give you a (minor) parry buff.

Looking at your gemming you are missing a few socket bonuses. Might be worth going for them, swapping out mastery/stam gems for dodge/stam or parry/stam.
You could also try reforging a bit of parry for mastery. I see your parry is some 3% higher than dodge, reforge the helm maybe?
Missing wrist enchant?

TLDR:
You are decently geared. LFG people are lazy asses who expect to be carried by a Tank/Healer decked out in raid heroic gear and who haven't developed past the skill of LK aoe zergs.
Ellifain @ Khaz'Goroth does not approve of torture, save where there's experience/rep/loot involved.
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