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4.3 Talent Spec & Glyph Guide

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Re: 4.1a Talent Spec & Glyph Guide

Postby Lolpaladins » Sat May 28, 2011 3:49 pm

Curious why the "standard" WoG build uses 3/3 Rule of Law instead of a 2nd point in reckoning if reckoning's second point is still significantly more threat/dps than RoL. Unless you consider 5% chance to crit on WoG more important for (unreliable) survivability than 100+ dps. (people have spent thousands of gold in the past for 100pt dps increases).

If it was 0/32/9 it'd make more sense I think.

(And since I personally like Hallowed Ground, I don't even have 2 points in RoL, but obviously that isn't "standard" advice)
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Re: 4.1a Talent Spec & Glyph Guide

Postby Awyndel » Mon May 30, 2011 11:51 am

Prolly hasn't been updated yet. Most raid builds now remove the 2nd point from Guarded by the light, and put that into reckoning. This is because if WoG is on a 20 sec cd, it is rarely used to overheal, and mostly as emergency heal, hence the absorb is mostly wasted.

The WoG glyph has also become less popular because of this, CS or hotr would be advisable.
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Re: 4.1a Talent Spec & Glyph Guide

Postby theckhd » Mon May 30, 2011 8:27 pm

Lolpaladins wrote:Curious why the "standard" WoG build uses 3/3 Rule of Law instead of a 2nd point in reckoning if reckoning's second point is still significantly more threat/dps than RoL. Unless you consider 5% chance to crit on WoG more important for (unreliable) survivability than 100+ dps. (people have spent thousands of gold in the past for 100pt dps increases).


You answered your own question: For most players, the extra survivability is more important than 100+ DPS. Vengeance makes threat trivial, so almost any reasonable threat->survivability trade is worth making.

Awyndel wrote:Most raid builds now remove the 2nd point from Guarded by the light, and put that into reckoning. This is because if WoG is on a 20 sec cd, it is rarely used to overheal, and mostly as emergency heal, hence the absorb is mostly wasted.


I'm not sure where you get that impression, because it's certainly not true of many tanks clearing heroic modes.
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Re: 4.1a Talent Spec & Glyph Guide

Postby Vort » Mon May 30, 2011 9:54 pm

theckhd wrote:I'm not sure where you get that impression, because it's certainly not true of many tanks clearing heroic modes.


^

The overheal shield it provides is life saving at times.
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Re: 4.1a Talent Spec & Glyph Guide

Postby Treck » Tue May 31, 2011 4:06 am

Awyndel wrote:Most raid builds now remove the 2nd point from Guarded by the light, and put that into reckoning. This is because if WoG is on a 20 sec cd, it is rarely used to overheal, and mostly as emergency heal, hence the absorb is mostly wasted.


The 2nd point is the important part.
1 point only doesnt give WoG the absorb.
WoG is not only used in panic at low hp, in fact most of the times i use it FOR its absorb, right before some big attack.
That way its like reducing a big hit by about 30k, that means a lot, and will in effect also make the healers feel your not taking much damage, and wont waste mana on fast heals, as they would if they would see you go low fast, and sometimes start their heal even if youve had time to pop your WoG on you to heal, they will still have spent more mana than they would have had to.
In 4.2 guarded by the light doesnt affect holy shield, meaning that its even less usefull, but still. If the absorb would be given even with only one point, id think about removing it in 4.2, but since it wont, 2 points will still be pretty important.
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Re: 4.1a Talent Spec & Glyph Guide

Postby inthedrops » Tue May 31, 2011 8:28 am

I only have one pont in WoG for the reason Awyndel mentioned. Treckie perfectly explained why 2/2 is great. But I stopped bothering with it once they added the 20 second cooldown. I used to be a WoG whore before that.
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Re: 4.1a Talent Spec & Glyph Guide

Postby Awyndel » Tue May 31, 2011 5:37 pm

Sorry I just had that impression. I copied the spec from you actually theck, when the patch came out :P . It's all up to preference I guess. I like saving it for emergency heals, I have plenty of cd's to plan ahead with, from myself or other raid members.

I guess the wog spec has rol for the crit on wog.
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Re: 4.1a Talent Spec & Glyph Guide

Postby theckhd » Tue May 31, 2011 7:59 pm

Awyndel wrote:Sorry I just had that impression. I copied the spec from you actually theck, when the patch came out :P .

I've been running 1/2 Reck and 2/2 GbtL since 4.0.3 or earlier. The only change I made when 4.1 came out was to drop EG for SotP.
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Re: 4.1a Talent Spec & Glyph Guide

Postby Aikanaro » Tue May 31, 2011 8:52 pm

Hey, I was just wondering what your thoughts are on the new holy shield and its affect on using wog, will GbtL still be worth getting specially now with the 20 second cooldown it has? and what you would do with said points if you changed them.
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Re: 4.1a Talent Spec & Glyph Guide

Postby Treck » Wed Jun 01, 2011 5:25 am

Treck wrote:In 4.2 guarded by the light doesnt affect holy shield, meaning that its even less usefull, but still. If the absorb would be given even with only one point, id think about removing it in 4.2, but since it wont, 2 points will still be pretty important.
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Re: 4.1a Talent Spec & Glyph Guide

Postby Brutalus » Wed Jun 01, 2011 8:56 am

Aikanaro wrote:Hey, I was just wondering what your thoughts are on the new holy shield and its affect on using wog, will GbtL still be worth getting specially now with the 20 second cooldown it has? and what you would do with said points if you changed them.


Almost definately worth 2/2 just to be safe initially in my opinion, at least for heroics, particularly when going in without Firelands HC gear. When learning new encounters in an instance that you're "undergeared" for on heroic (Firelands heroic gear is like 398 or something?) I think it's better to be more on the survival side while your healers and even the rest of your raid adapt to changes than it is to doing a couple hundred more dps. Maybe when getting closer to a kill on encounters where I don't really need the shield outside of very special circumstances (dead healers) I would remove the points from it in order to maximise dps - it's not like you're locked into a spec once you've respecced.

I guess the first spare point would go into Reckoning while the other would be best used in either JotP or Hallowed Ground (to make its mana cost more convenient).
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Re: 4.1a Talent Spec & Glyph Guide

Postby Awyndel » Fri Jun 03, 2011 2:28 am

Think I copied it from the mathlab threat tests for 4.1. Either way, I like it this way.
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Re: 4.1a Talent Spec & Glyph Guide

Postby Masanori » Fri Jun 03, 2011 7:09 pm

Treck wrote:WoG is not only used in panic at low hp, in fact most of the times i use it FOR its absorb, right before some big attack.
That way its like reducing a big hit by about 30k, that means a lot, and will in effect also make the healers feel your not taking much damage, and wont waste mana on fast heals, as they would if they would see you go low fast, and sometimes start their heal even if youve had time to pop your WoG on you to heal, they will still have spent more mana than they would have had to.

Agreed there. I sometimes use Divine Protection and GbtL in combination for huge attacks like Nefarian's electrocutes as preparation for when Guardian of Ancient Kings is on cooldown. It's an invaluable ability to have when you're familiar with encounters.
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Re: 4.1a Talent Spec & Glyph Guide

Postby agetro » Thu Jul 07, 2011 11:33 am

I'm trying to understand 2/2 GbtL. Overhealing turns into an absorb-bubble. At what point is the overhealing taking place? I thought maybe after 100% health, so WoGing at low HP wouldn't give a shield? But it looks like it does. I took 1 point out because I must have misunderstood, but I'll gladly take that 2nd point out of Reckoning to put back in GbtL. Please clarify.
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Re: 4.1a Talent Spec & Glyph Guide

Postby Xayton » Sat Jul 09, 2011 12:15 pm

agetro wrote:I'm trying to understand 2/2 GbtL. Overhealing turns into an absorb-bubble. At what point is the overhealing taking place? I thought maybe after 100% health, so WoGing at low HP wouldn't give a shield? But it looks like it does. I took 1 point out because I must have misunderstood, but I'll gladly take that 2nd point out of Reckoning to put back in GbtL. Please clarify.


The overhealing bubble only happens if you are at 100% health. If you are at full when you cast WoG you will get the full heal as a shield, if you are not at 100% and WoG brings you to full, any overhealing will be turned into a shield.

100% + 20k WoG = 20k shield
90% + 20k WoG = 10k shield

Something like that.
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