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[25] Nefarian Add Kiting

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Re: [25] Nefarian Add Kiting

Postby Ezelyn » Sat Feb 26, 2011 5:25 am

Rhiannon wrote:They gain a stack every 4 seconds they're active. They lose 2 energy every second. Perfect add control = 14/15 stacks on each add by the time they run out of energy and fall over. If you're running out of room when moving them around the outer edge, you're moving them a lot quicker/further than you need to.


Thx for the 2 answers guys.
But with all squel on 14-15 stacks, the offtank is still healable ?

if i understand correctly :
we just offtank them near the fire (not to close but not to far) and start moving when Nefa is on 5sec before his spell. Rince and repeat until they run out of energy (next fire awakes them all and we start again)
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Re: [25] Nefarian Add Kiting

Postby Rhiannon » Sat Feb 26, 2011 7:52 am

Definitely healable if they only get 14-15 stacks, a CD is probably a good idea each time though. Assuming perfect add control, the danger to the add tank comes when Electrocute coincides with them having high stacks, so you'll want to figure out some combination of CDs and CCs for that situation. Ideally you can holy wrath the adds just when the electrocute hits to buy a few seconds for the healers to get you back up without taking melee swings, but later on in the fight you'll find you won't be able to stun the adds without them then getting hit by a new shadowblaze spark, so you'll need to use a reasonably strong CD instead.

And 5 seconds is probably a bit too early. Personally I start backpedalling with 1-2 seconds left on the timer, and strafe as soon as I see the graphic. But 5 seconds works to start off with while you get used to it.
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Re: [25] Nefarian Add Kiting

Postby superworm » Mon Feb 28, 2011 9:58 am

It's odd that addons didn't show any shadowblaze timer for me. I tried Bigwigs, DBM and RaidWatch2, and none of them worked for me. Just no timers at all! So later I had to count the time myself. It worked anyway and we successfully killed Nefarian.

Generally I would start stepping back when it's almost the time, and ran sideways when I saw the blue ball coming down. It worked quite well. Also we had 2 tanks pulling the adds, while each of us had about half the adds on us. So not very stressful for add tanks.
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Re: [25] Nefarian Add Kiting

Postby lythac » Mon Feb 28, 2011 11:17 am

superworm wrote:It's odd that addons didn't show any shadowblaze timer for me. I tried Bigwigs, DBM and RaidWatch2, and none of them worked for me. Just no timers at all! So later I had to count the time myself. It worked anyway and we successfully killed Nefarian.


Silly question, but you do have both the "bar" and "announce" boxes ticked for Shadowblaze in DBM options?
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Re: [25] Nefarian Add Kiting

Postby superworm » Mon Feb 28, 2011 6:52 pm

lythac wrote:
superworm wrote:It's odd that addons didn't show any shadowblaze timer for me. I tried Bigwigs, DBM and RaidWatch2, and none of them worked for me. Just no timers at all! So later I had to count the time myself. It worked anyway and we successfully killed Nefarian.


Silly question, but you do have both the "bar" and "announce" boxes ticked for Shadowblaze in DBM options?


I remember I spent much effort in trying to figure out what was wrong with the addons. I no longer remember the details of DBM settings as I have uninstalled that, but I did turn on both the "bar" and "announce" options for this fight.
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Re: [25] Nefarian Add Kiting

Postby Ezelyn » Tue Mar 01, 2011 1:54 am

Thanks for tips guys, it works very well. We had some problem with the "kitting" solution and now its so easy with the tanking strat...

Healadin with RF stacks the add in P1. Firemage help to control them (combo Frost Ring, Nova, Dragon breath).
Had 2 crackle during P2.

In P3, Offtank takes all squeletton during the first shadowblaze and just backpaddle all the time...
Really a nobrain fight now.
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Re: [25] Nefarian Add Kiting

Postby ashnod » Sun May 29, 2011 10:29 am

First, this guide is amazing for P3 and I have no questions there.

I have never done adds in P1 and the new guild I'm in wants me to do adds! So I have a few questions.

By the time the 12th add spawns in P1, how much time do I have to position them where they're going to deactivate?

While I'm waiting for them all to spawn, do I just tank them or run around "kiting" them to somehow reduce damage, or will I be doing that trying to pick them all up anyway?

Is picking up the adds in P1 pretty straightforward?
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Re: [25] Nefarian Add Kiting

Postby Kerriodos » Sun May 29, 2011 10:59 am

I've never bothered to actually count, but I would estimate about 20-25 seconds from the time the last add lands to the time the first deactivates. Generally to pick them all up I just stand on the raid; one HotR is enough to pull them off anyone nearby, and a Righteous Defense will pull them off the Nefarian tank's healers. The biggest issue with picking them all up was our Druid tanking Onyxia. He sometimes grabs the ones that spawn near him since he has Berserk up and it can be tough to pull them off him, though we've since worked out the issue and he Berserks a little later into the fight (MD and Tricks cover threat for a little).

Best bet is to pick them all up, move to the outer ring, and try to keep them stacked as tightly as possible. Damage intake is pretty low here, especially if you GoAK when you get into position for them to die. They should all be dead as your raid switches to Nefarian to push a few Crackles. Don't bother trying to actively kite the ones you have while picking up others, you already have enough to worry about. Just try to keep them in front of you.
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Re: [25] Nefarian Add Kiting

Postby Brutalus » Sun May 29, 2011 12:16 pm

I have never done adds in P1 and the new guild I'm in wants me to do adds! So I have a few questions.

By the time the 12th add spawns in P1, how much time do I have to position them where they're going to deactivate?

While I'm waiting for them all to spawn, do I just tank them or run around "kiting" them to somehow reduce damage, or will I be doing that trying to pick them all up anyway?

Is picking up the adds in P1 pretty straightforward?


It's pretty straightforward. You can stand under Onyxia's tail during the first lightning-thing, you should survive the roughly 6 by that time adds while you get the tailswipe - use divine prot if it seems to be a problem. A few seconds after that, I move out and hotr most of the new ones that just run in. Usually there's one or two more left over that you can AS and taunt (or judge if there's a third) as you run. There's roughly 20 seconds by the time the last one spawns I'd guess. It isn't very hard, they can hit hard once you have them assembled, though, so have your cooldowns mapped - be prepared to use either GoAK or AD as well divine prot.
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Re: [25] Nefarian Add Kiting

Postby Jenkz » Sun May 29, 2011 10:27 pm

So we are having issues with the adds. It is my understanding that the OT just gather them up and walk backwards tanking them and a second before shadowblaze goes off the tank moves real to quick to avoid it. Rinse and repeat over and over as they die...this correct?

We have been straight out trying to kite them by using slows and traps so the tank keeps agro but is way ahead of them trying not to get hit.
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Re: [25] Nefarian Add Kiting

Postby PsiVen » Sun May 29, 2011 10:57 pm

Jenkz wrote:We have been straight out trying to kite them by using slows and traps so the tank keeps agro but is way ahead of them trying not to get hit.


Yeah, that really doesn't work. It will make for really sloppy P3s where you'd be lucky to ever reset the adds, and you'd find yourself tempted to take extra electrocutes in other phases. It's particularly a nightmare to try and keep them snared.

Kiting is an unfortunate term for what happens with the adds on this fight. The tank should be stationary most of the time, moving only at precise moments. Strafe away immediately when the Shadowblaze timer is at 2 seconds, and stop when you see the spark dropping at a safe distance.
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Re: [25] Nefarian Add Kiting

Postby Era » Tue May 31, 2011 6:00 am

Hi guys!

I have a question that I can't seem to find the answer of. Or rather, I can't seem to find the correct answer.
The fires from Shadow Blaze, does it follow the adds or the person closest to the fire?

And if it does follow the person closest to it, is that determined by when the Shadow Blaze lands or at any time during the third phase (meaning that the fire can suddenly start following someone else if they get too close)?

Internet seems to be unable to decide, and it kind of matters.
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Re: [25] Nefarian Add Kiting

Postby PsiVen » Tue May 31, 2011 6:38 am

Shadowblaze doesn't follow anyone, it expands in a circle outward from its starting location (which is aimed at the adds).
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Re: [25] Nefarian Add Kiting

Postby Era » Tue May 31, 2011 6:55 am

Does it work that way in all modes? (10/25, Normal/Heroic)

That would certainly explain a few things, yet it doesn't feel like it works that way when I'm down there kiting.
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Re: [25] Nefarian Add Kiting

Postby Sharkattack056 » Tue May 31, 2011 7:17 am

Here's what we do for our Nefarion kills. Since we use 3 tanks for the fight, and since Phase 3 only requires 2 tanks, we have 1 tank on Nefarion, another on the adds, and have our third tank keep second AoE threat on all adds, along with picking up scattered adds that either run into melee, or ones that are ressurected later than the initial group. For us, we have our Paladin on adds, and our Death Knight running with him, casting a few Blood Boils, and dropping Death and Decay, to maintain threat incase the add tank dies, yet not pulling any off.

As for actually kitting the adds, from their initial spawn, they live for 90 seconds before death, assuming you do not touch any fire. As I'm sure you already know, if an add touches the fire at any point, their energy bar resets. I use DBM, and it has a 5 second warning before the next Shadowflame hits. Our add tank pulls them far enough from the fire so they do not hit, yet not too far. He then stands there and tanks them until the 5 second warning. At this point, he starts moving the addsd until the next fire hits. As long as you are moving the adds the whole time during this 5 second warning, the Shadowflame should miss every time, and your adds will reset after 90 seconds.
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