Halfus HC 10 man

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Halfus HC 10 man

Postby Fuin » Wed May 04, 2011 3:04 pm

Hey guys, I saw there is an another topic about halfus, however Halfus got changed at some point, so I'm asking for an advice.
We have
Pala tank, Warrior tank + Dk tank
Pala healer, 2x druid healer
Ench sham, mage, lock, boomkin dps

What's the best way to bring him down, the problem is that our DK tank is half geared, his gear is significantly worse then mine and warrior's. Should we realese 4 drakes or 3, I guess that attack speed, shadow nova and time warden has to be realesed immadietly, the question is, should we realese whelps at the very beggining too and what would be the best way to split dragons between tanks?
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Re: Halfus HC 10 man

Postby Chicken » Wed May 04, 2011 3:37 pm

I haven't heard of any 10-man guild having success with releasing four things at once.

It should be noted that the whelp pack hits slightly harder than a drake does. The Nether Scion and Storm Rider are guaranteed immediately releases, and you have a choice at that point between either releasing the Time Warden (Better for single target focused DPS) or the whelps (Better for High AoE DPS) immediately. If you go for the whelps first of the two your AoE most be powerful enough to be able to get them down in a very short time span (Less than 30 or so seconds); the fireballs the proto-drake shoots are very damaging even with the whelp debuff; make sure to use raid wide cooldowns like Divine Guardian during this part if you go for whelps first. A group of a mage, warlock and boomkin does make a pretty good AoE group.

The Paladin or Warrior should be either tanking two drakes at once, or one drake + whelp pack. This is painful, but this tank won't participate in tanking Halfus until after he's only tanking one target. Your Death Knight should be one of the initial Halfus tanks as Halfus hits less hard than the drakes do (He'll still have to tank a drake with the debuff at some point, and should probably use his cooldowns for that). When tank swaps happen it's going to have to be a literal tank swap: Your two Halfus tanks will be swapping between Halfus and the Nether Scion initially as their wounds debuff stacks. Once your third tank is only tanking a single drake, he should start rotating with them as well so you can keep the debuff stack less high.
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Re: Halfus HC 10 man

Postby Rhiannon » Wed May 04, 2011 10:01 pm

Presumably the DK is usually DPS? Honestly, I don't see the benefit of 3 tanking this fight in its current state, it just makes for messy healing assignments. One reasonably geared tank should be able to tank two drakes fine for a while, plus you have two paladins for lots of stack resetting fun.

Typically on 10 man I've used the fairly conventional approach of:

Tank A takes storm rider, time warden on pull
Tank B takes halfus + nether scion on pull

Burn lust/hero as soon as tank A has grabbed his drakes and dragged them on top of Halfus. Everyone in the raid attacks the kill target drake (we kill storm rider for what it's worth) with shadow nova interrupter using a focus macro - this includes tanks, as fully stacked vengeance tank dps is pretty hefty. The objective is to kill the first drake as fast as possible.

Tank B calls for a HoP (or bubbles if he's the paladin) when he has 8-9 stacks of the healing debuff. If he's down at sub-40% hp and healers are struggling to get him up he can call for the stack reset earlier of course. By the time he's up to 4-5 stacks the first drake should be dead if everyone's been tunneling it as they were meant to. Tank A then taunts halfus, leaving tank B with just the nether scion.

Raid burns second drake, tank A gets to 8-9 stacks and then resets, by the time he's up to 3-4 stacks tank B's stacks are off so he takes Halfus back. Second drake should be dying around this point, at which point the tank not on Halfus picks up whelps which are then AoE'd on top of Halfus and the third drake by strong AoE classes. Single target burns the third drake.

Releasing slate is pretty optional, not sure how the maths works out as far as whether it's worth it from a dps perspective, once you've 3 drakes down + whelps down it's pretty hard to wipe as you've got a mage for post-furious roar interrupts.

For a first kill I'd stress to everyone that they have to absolutely tunnel vision that first drake to get it down asap; once you've killed it a few times it's fine for people to start multi-dotting several drakes to lead to a shorter overall kill, but early on it's crucial to relieve the initial pressure on the healers as quickly as possible.
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Re: Halfus HC 10 man

Postby Hrobertgar » Thu May 05, 2011 8:11 am

If you insist on running with 3 tanks, then I agree that pulling 3 drakes plus whelps is desireable. Whelps help nerf the flame breath, and yes you can use a raid wide CD but its nice to get them outof the way. Not everyone dodges fireballs, but pulling Time Warden can definitely ease healing as well. You can stack everything other than halfus and AOE the whelps down while damaging everything else. This can be especially good with the various AOE buff that became effective in 4.1. My group runs 2 tanks plus a hunter beetle pet with tank talents to hold time warden, and it works fine.

The DK makes sense for Halfus not just for Halfus hitting 'like a girl' but also because a DK should presumably have higher avoidance (dodge+parry) than a shield tank would. The avoidance will reduce the stackrate of the MS debuff and give you more time between HoPs (potentially 1 from each pally for 2). With Halfus alone, the DK shoule be able to sustain 10+ stacks prior to having them HoP'd off, especially if he has a CD up, he could potentially go higher. Heopfully, 2-3 drakes will be down before you run outof HoPs. Note that if he is going to swap and tank a drake, I would recommend a max of 5 stacks, preferrably fewer, and since you have 3 tanks to rotate thru this should not be an issue.

This would leave the shield tanks each with either 2 drakes or a drake plus whelps, and the whelps ARE painfull to heal thru, which is why I like AOEing the pile down. Also, many classes benefit from having a focus target even for AOE, and you can designate one of the drakes for this so that it can be at like 50% by the time the whelps are gone. For my group, we have taken to actually pulling Slate at the end and tanking him (not killing him) for the stun to help against furious roars.
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Re: Halfus HC 10 man

Postby PsiVen » Fri May 06, 2011 5:33 pm

The whelps might hit slightly harder, but they die way faster and are less bursty -- for that reason it's a good idea to either kill them first (because they die fast) or last (because they die to incidental AoE while you burn other targets).

I haven't heard of any 10-man guild having success with releasing four things at once.


I have, sure, but I wouldn't necessarily recommend it. I would advise most raids to learn the fight 4-healing or 3-tanking, because stability is the most important part of learning any fight and either one will make your strategy rock solid repeatable.

We've tried releasing and not releasing Slate and I recommend not touching him. The drake is more likely to kill someone during his time alive than the boss during the entire rest of the fight if the drake stays asleep, especially since if you can kill Slate before Halfus is at 50% your DPS is probably not being efficient.
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Re: Halfus HC 10 man

Postby Milius » Sun May 08, 2011 3:46 pm

We generally run with 3 tanks and 3 healers, release 3 drakes at the start as well as the whelps.
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Re: Halfus HC 10 man

Postby Vort » Sun May 08, 2011 3:56 pm

We ran with 2 tanks, 3 healers, 5 dps.

Release Nether, Storm, Time, Whelps. We don't even so much as look in Slates direction.

I tanked Halfus first to DS the stacks off. Nether got MD'd to me so you might have a bit of trouble on the pull without a hunter or a rogue, and I picked up Storm when it became active.

Our only kill where we didn't use this setup was the very first kill, we made our fury warrior offspec Tank and pretty much hold a dragon until both regular tanks were free and then we took it off of him while juggling Halfus.

3 Tanking it or 4 healing it in the beginning can assist in learning the fight. After you've made good progress on it as long as the tanks communicate and swap Halfus at appropriate times there really isn't any issue and it should be 2 tanked with relative ease.
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Re: Halfus HC 10 man

Postby Epimer » Sun May 08, 2011 4:07 pm

We've done it with two tanks and three healers, and with three tanks and three healers (tonight, oddly enough).

We found that everything's a bit more stable with three tanks, but if you get an early death to someone being a bit slow then the enrage timer can start to be an issue. Although this was a low DPS week for us, it's something to consider.

I was healing on the two tank kill attempt and, while it's hectic at the beginning, I thought it felt very manageable and reproducible if you make it through the first minute or so with nothing bad happening. If I was the raid leader, that's the route I'd push even for progression attempts. I suppose you should just go with whichever approach best suits your group.
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Re: Halfus HC 10 man

Postby Vort » Sun May 08, 2011 4:45 pm

Blizzard didn't really think this one through initially.

When you can bring up to 4-5 Tanks on Heroic 25, you obviously couldn't on 10 because of DPS constraints. There was also the problem that the damage output from the boss and the drakes was scaled much too high for Heroic 10. Blizzard dropped the HP of the dragons, and dropped the damage output. Back in December 2010 this fight was an absolute joke on 25, 10 man took weeks later to kill it due to the balancing issues that plague 10 and 25, you can't just scale the HP of the boss and expect it to be even when there are underlying mechanics that prevent you from completing the encounter.
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Re: Halfus HC 10 man

Postby Nemi » Mon May 09, 2011 9:13 am

We found this fight to be hard to initally learn. However once you get the order of drakes to kill It's too easy.

We are (were 7 people left :( )
Pally , DK Tank
Pally, Holy Priest, Druid Heals
Fire mage, Lock, Rog, Ele sham, Huntar.

Dk releases whelps grabs time and Storm, drakes are released by someone and does DK ranged things to keep agro. Pally tank gets Halfus and nether.

We kill the Time, and by the time the Time drake is down, the whelps are usually 95% dead from AOE (silly combustion and Lock things). DK tank taunts drake off halfus tank and we go till Halfus tank has 4-5 stacks (first stack goes as high as possible then bubbled off) once Halfus tank has 4-5 stacks, uses tri-taunt and nab's both drakes, DK then pulls Halfus off. Continue killing Nether and Storm. rotate tanks at 4-5 stacks.

The fight is all about the first 10-35 seconds. IF it goes past this 9/10 times its a win. This is the only hard mode fight we were able to beat (only one we attempted honestly) So we're not in full 372 gear, I believe a few still are missing 359 even. This is certainly a healer fight and if they are sub-par, you'll have problems.
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Re: Halfus HC 10 man

Postby KysenMurrin » Sun May 22, 2011 3:24 am

We did this one last night, and wow, that first minute is a bitch. I'm not sure where our strat came from, but we were releasing Storm, Nether, and Whelps on the pull, with a tank on Storm & Whelps, and one on Nether & Halfus.

I think we were mostly letting Whelps die to cleaves and such. We had a Holy Paladin HoPing our Halfus tank early on so there was no tank swap until the Storm Rider died. Time Warden was released as soon as the tanks had some breathing room with Storm down and Whelps mostly dead.

We only got to killing the second drake four times. Our dps was low, so we got to sub 5% a few times with a wipe, seemed to be a big increase in fireball damage at that last part. We were usually within 10 seconds of the enrage at that point. On the kill, we had a messy first minute but ended with 30 seconds remaining.

I really like this fight when you can get past the first part. When you wipe within 10 seconds because of RNG on the mortal strike stacks or a missed interrupt on the first Nova, that's not so fun.
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Re: Halfus HC 10 man

Postby Hrobertgar » Mon May 23, 2011 6:38 am

so we got to sub 5% a few times with a wipe, seemed to be a big increase in fireball damage at that last part.


The fireball damage only 'increases' at the end because people get stunned by Furious Roar and can't dodge them, and the healers get stunned and can't heal through them. If I'm healing this, then I try to save bubble for this phase and bubble-heal during the first set of furious roars, as we rarely get more than 2 anyways.

Without a pally heal in the raid, I'd think about timing some kind of AOE HOT or raid CD for when he is almost to 50%. Aura Mastery and Holy Radiance can help, but it can be difficult to time them. If you're a plly though I would proll use bubble for the first, then the others for the next set.

I also jsut thought, you could try HoP on a healer (one without Forebearance) during the roar's as well.
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Re: Halfus HC 10 man

Postby Chicken » Mon May 23, 2011 8:27 am

Fireballs during Furious Roars are in fact one of those situations where you should be jumping to get out of something: Jumping in between Furious Roars allows you to cover a greater distance than just normally running would do, you'll get stunned about halfway through your jump but that won't prevent the jump from moving you further. Liberal application of jumping during Furious Roars allows you to dodge all fireballs during Furious Roar.
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Re: Halfus HC 10 man

Postby KysenMurrin » Mon May 23, 2011 10:04 am

Oddly enough, it didn't seem like during Roars was the problem. Maybe I was just imagining it, but there just seemed to be a much larger number of fireballs landing whenever we had Halfus under 10%.
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Re: Halfus HC 10 man

Postby PsiVen » Tue May 24, 2011 6:47 am

Yeah, the only way that can happen is if people are clumped up and splashing fireballs at the end.
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