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4.2 PTR discussion

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Re: 4.2 PTR discussion

Postby Arianne » Wed May 11, 2011 3:30 pm

On most bosses I see our healers relying on that next mana tide coming up very frequently. Particularly on Nef and Cho'gall. I don't see how nerfing paladins and shaman while buffing druids and leaving priests the same is going to benefit our raid. When they have to adjust the coefficients each major patch for the item levels they're adding that patch, it screws everyone over until they manage to get most of the gear from that patch. IMO, this is a failure in game design.
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Re: 4.2 PTR discussion

Postby Meloree » Wed May 11, 2011 3:48 pm

Arianne wrote:On most bosses I see our healers relying on that next mana tide coming up very frequently. Particularly on Nef and Cho'gall. I don't see how nerfing paladins and shaman while buffing druids and leaving priests the same is going to benefit our raid. When they have to adjust the coefficients each major patch for the item levels they're adding that patch, it screws everyone over until they manage to get most of the gear from that patch. IMO, this is a failure in game design.


It's entirely a failure of game design, but it's been blindingly obvious that they had to adjust mana for 4.2 for a long time now. I expect changes to priest and druid mana will be forthcoming, even after the innervate changes which have reduced druid mana by a bit. The mana tide change was absolutely necessary as well. Blizzard has a model of triage healing that they want to maintain, and ilvl372 gear completely broke it. Mana's been a nonissue in Cataclysm for a while, and another tier of gear without adjustments would have recreated the Wrath healing model.
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Re: 4.2 PTR discussion

Postby lythac » Wed May 11, 2011 6:32 pm

halabar wrote:
Nikachelle wrote:Quick question... I have a guildie telling me there are new 5 man dungeons coming out with the release of Firelands. Can anyone confirm or deny? I haven't seen jack squat about any new five mans, but it's possible I skipped over it.


Not that I have seen.

We are getting a new Isle of Q quest zone to keep us busy. Unless they are hiding a new 5-man in there, we aren't getting a new on that I've heard of.


Given how the Zuls have come about, dwindling subscriptions and promises to push content out more often I foresee -

Tier 11 (359N 372H)
5 man Zuls (353)
Tier 12 (378N 391H)
5 man Fire instances (372)
Tier 13 (397N 410H)
5 man of some kind (391)
Tier 14 (416N 429H) (Deathwing)
5 Man sabotage Deathwing's bakery!!!! (410)
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Re: 4.2 PTR discussion

Postby Jonlo » Wed May 11, 2011 11:25 pm

lythac wrote:
halabar wrote:
Nikachelle wrote:Quick question... I have a guildie telling me there are new 5 man dungeons coming out with the release of Firelands. Can anyone confirm or deny? I haven't seen jack squat about any new five mans, but it's possible I skipped over it.


Not that I have seen.

We are getting a new Isle of Q quest zone to keep us busy. Unless they are hiding a new 5-man in there, we aren't getting a new on that I've heard of.


Given how the Zuls have come about, dwindling subscriptions and promises to push content out more often I foresee -

Tier 11 (359N 372H)
5 man Zuls (353)
Tier 12 (378N 391H)
5 man Fire instances (372)
Tier 13 (397N 410H)
5 man of some kind (391)
Tier 14 (416N 429H) (Deathwing)
5 Man sabotage Deathwing's bakery!!!! (410)


11.4 Million isn't dwindling, just so you know.
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Re: 4.2 PTR discussion

Postby RedAces » Thu May 12, 2011 12:50 am

hey,

lythac wrote:5 Man sabotage Deathwing's bakery!!!! (410)


The cake is a lie!

Jonlo wrote:11.4 Million isn't dwindling, just so you know.


11.4m is 600k less than 12m and it would be interesting to know why they stopped playing. Did they stopped because they enjoyed the faceroll content in WotLK and couldn't handle the hard raids now? Are they bored after 5 years playing? Or is this because of some new law in china where 600k chinese gamers (gamers not bots or farmers) can't play?

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Re: 4.2 PTR discussion

Postby crazyharry » Thu May 12, 2011 1:25 am

man, only 11.4 million. poor old Blizzard

I remember back in the days before WoW when computers where made of stone and powered by a treadmill, 50 thousand players was considered a run away success in an MMO.
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Re: 4.2 PTR discussion

Postby Treck » Thu May 12, 2011 1:42 am

RedAces wrote:11.4m is 600k less than 12m and it would be interesting to know why they stopped playing. Did they stopped because they enjoyed the faceroll content in WotLK and couldn't handle the hard raids now? Are they bored after 5 years playing?

The reason is that most have gotten boored with the same game for 6 months.
And Hardmodes are there for those who want to challenge themselves, for the "elite" players as blizzard puts it.
People were disapointed with sunwell, not cuz they didnt get to do the hard fights that were in there and get that kind of satisfaction, but they were disapointed that they couldnt even experience it.
Heroic mode is suppose to be for the elite players, those who wanna take it to the next level, tbh even heroic 5mans should have that same mindset, thats why i always find it so amusing when people have problems with heroics or think they are hard, when they are suppose to be there only if you wanna challenge yourself.
The nature of 5mans is a lot different tho, even if that is the basic plan.

It is far from everyones desire to progress normalmodes and then start doing hardmodes, as many can see thats an ongoing process that is by many guilds never completed, so why start heroics if you cant finnish them?

I know its hard for a lot of "hardcore" raiders to think that hardmodes isnt important, but for a lot of more casually played guilds, hardmodes are just not interesting to them.
Sure they give better loot but those people usually care most about having fun raiding instead.

A lot of my IRL friends stopped playing sometime in febuary, cuz at the time, they were just farming heroics over and over for the valor points, smth that wasnt very fun, but at the same time it was time consuming and annoying, and an hour after they qued, there were no guarantee they would be done with it.
This was a big problem for more casual players, people who dont wanna feel wow is a 2nd workplace for them.
But in order to not slow your friends down once you went raiding, you "had" to do heroics for valor, something that took to long compared to the time they wanted to put down on it (and obviously they were a bit used to the wotlk way of things) then even after weeks of running a heroic each day, you still needed more valorpoints.
Then once you got into raiding it was just to much content at once, leaving a lot of people thinking that they are so far from the "end" of the game, that why continue?

For my own personal experience, cata have been a blast, the progression was awesome, the heroic 5mans were perfect in the beginning, but tbh so was wrath heroics, people just overgeared it after one night in naxx, unlike cata where gearing up happened a lot slower, but going into the "old" heroics with 372s isnt very challenging.
My progression stopped end of january, and ive been very happy with raiding once a week to clear content, at some points ive put the game aside a bit just raidlogging on wednesdays, at some points ive been very busy in wow doing whatever with alts or stuff.

Whats made WoW such a succesfull game is the casual appeal it has had.
Cata is a step deeper into the "hardcore" populations desires, so obviously they are going to loose players over that.
If they just wanted more players, fuck the hardcore population, and give the casuals what they want.
They would loose a lot of hardcore people by doing that, but the 600k people they lost, how many do you think were hardcore raiders?
Blizzard has made an example that "real" games can have a big player base. Even so, casual gaming completely crushes all that blizzard ever had in terms of players, farmville for example has almost 40million who play regulary each day, and 3times that many who have played it, last time i checked, angry birds had as many players as wow.
Wow is a lot different obviously, but it does mean that if you want subscribers, its better beeing liked by a lot, than loved by a few.

That said, theres obviously been hardcore raiders who have left aswell, a few in our guild stopped, and that was cuz they got burnt out during the progression of cata, and felt like they dont wanna go through that again, dedicating a whole month to wow is a lot to ask for.
Ensidia lost Kungen and a few others recently aswell, they all say the gaming experience wasnt fun anymore, smth i have trouble understanding from my own PoV, i just think they jumped the ship when they realised their situation isnt going to improove, and i doubt were going to see them top 5 anymore.

TL;DR People play the game for different reasons, as we can see from the drop of players, wow has gone into a direction that didnt appeal to everyone.
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Re: 4.2 PTR discussion

Postby Loras » Thu May 12, 2011 3:37 am

Sorry, but that number has always been fake to me. I think it was said somewhere that it's kind of cheating and that 12 million are the subscriptions in total, but such a big part of them are non active. I have a friend that played for vanilla, TBC, and first 4-5 months of Wrath and then stopped, or another who played only during vanilla, yet they count people like towards the 12 million subscriptions. That's not quite the best representation of the wow player base. Not to mention the people with 2+ accounts.
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Re: 4.2 PTR discussion

Postby Archeth » Thu May 12, 2011 4:28 am

They actually describe (or used to) what they count as a subscriber for these numbers and for US/EU servers it's pretty fair (you don't get counted if your subscription expires, but if you pay for 12 months in advance it's not their problem if you stop playing after 2), however the x million marks have always included Chinese player counts in a way that's somewhat misleading. Not sure if that way of counting has changed.
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Re: 4.2 PTR discussion

Postby RedAces » Thu May 12, 2011 5:43 am

hey,

Loras wrote:Sorry, but that number has always been fake to me. I think it was said somewhere that it's kind of cheating and that 12 million are the subscriptions in total, but such a big part of them are non active. I have a friend that played for vanilla, TBC, and first 4-5 months of Wrath and then stopped, or another who played only during vanilla, yet they count people like towards the 12 million subscriptions. That's not quite the best representation of the wow player base. Not to mention the people with 2+ accounts.


Sorry but that number is not fake. It's the number of accounts that were active in last 30 days. There was a very good (player-written) blog entry that explained a few things about, but I can't seem to find it right now...

Blizzard wrote:World of Warcraft subscribers are defined to include: (1) individuals who have paid a subscription fee or have an active prepaid card to play World of Warcraft , (2) those who have purchased the game and are within their free month of access, and (3) Internet Game Room players who have accessed the game over the last thirty days. The definition of subscribers does not include any players under free promotional subscriptions, expired or cancelled subscriptions, or expired prepaid cards.

Source: http://investor.activision.com/secfilin ... 69-11-1413 page 12

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Re: 4.2 PTR discussion

Postby halabar » Thu May 12, 2011 8:03 am

Treck wrote:TL;DR People play the game for different reasons, as we can see from the drop of players, wow has gone into a direction that didnt appeal to everyone.


You bring up some valid points, but since we don't have access to the "exit survey" that Blizz gives, we really are just guessing based on our own biases.

I suspect that a portion of those drops happened before the introduction of the trolls. Heck, some of those drops may have happened simply because the Spring Semester started.
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Re: 4.2 PTR discussion

Postby halabar » Thu May 12, 2011 8:05 am

lythac wrote:Tier 11 (359N 372H)
5 man Zuls (353)
Tier 12 (378N 391H)
5 man Fire instances (372)
Tier 13 (397N 410H)
5 man of some kind (391)
Tier 14 (416N 429H) (Deathwing)
5 Man sabotage Deathwing's bakery!!!! (410)


The more I think about it, this makes a lot of sense. It will be interesting to see what content gets recycled for the next set of 5-mans.
Amirya wrote:... because everyone needs a Catagonskin rug.

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Re: 4.2 PTR discussion

Postby bldavis » Thu May 12, 2011 8:08 am

Naxx 5man!

calling it now!
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Brekkie:Tanks are like shitty DPS. And healers are like REALLY distracted DPS
Amirya:Why yes, your penis is longer than his because you hit 30k dps in the first 10 seconds. But guess what? That raid boss has a dick bigger than your ego.
Flex:I don't make mistakes. I execute carefully planned strategic group wipes.
Levie:(in /g) It's weird, I have a collar and I dont know where I got it from, Worgen are kinky!
Levie:Drunk Lev goes and does what he pleases just to annoy sober Lev.
Sagara:You see, you need to *spread* the bun before you insert the hot dog.
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Re: 4.2 PTR discussion

Postby halabar » Thu May 12, 2011 8:15 am

bldavis wrote:Naxx 5man!

calling it now!


I already called that about a month ago in the Trolls bitch thread... :lol:
Amirya wrote:... because everyone needs a Catagonskin rug.

twinkfist wrote:i feel bad for the Mogu...having to deal with alcoholic bears.
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Re: 4.2 PTR discussion

Postby bldavis » Thu May 12, 2011 8:18 am

actually i think i called it first....
fine ill let you have that one

H-BRD 5man!

or H-Mara :twisted:
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Brekkie:Tanks are like shitty DPS. And healers are like REALLY distracted DPS
Amirya:Why yes, your penis is longer than his because you hit 30k dps in the first 10 seconds. But guess what? That raid boss has a dick bigger than your ego.
Flex:I don't make mistakes. I execute carefully planned strategic group wipes.
Levie:(in /g) It's weird, I have a collar and I dont know where I got it from, Worgen are kinky!
Levie:Drunk Lev goes and does what he pleases just to annoy sober Lev.
Sagara:You see, you need to *spread* the bun before you insert the hot dog.
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