4.2 PTR discussion

Anything, including off-topic posts

Moderators: Fridmarr, Worldie, Aergis, Sabindeus, PsiVen

Re: 4.2 PTR discussion

Postby Meloree » Wed May 11, 2011 9:32 am

theckhd wrote:Is that really the standard? I've always kept my warlock pets on Defensive, but I admit to hating pet micro.


It certainly is in my raid. The number of times that non-passive pets can screw you is fairly large. I generally have a talk with pet classes that have pets on defensive (it's fairly obvious) or that can't micro them (also obvious).

Passive pets won't kill people during Nef MCs, for example.

Also, it's just a good general rule to never trust a warlock. Or a huntard. And especially not a DK - the new huntard.
Meloree
Maintankadonor
 
Posts: 1420
Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2008 10:15 am

Re: 4.2 PTR discussion

Postby Meloree » Wed May 11, 2011 9:33 am

Levantine wrote:So yeah, I'm actually all for the mana regen nerfs across the board. (funnily enough they aren't actually across the board, since Priests are only impacted as a side effect of Mana Tide, but still) Blizzard wanted to make healer mana matter in cataclysm, and so far they've failed miserably in the grand scheme.


Yeah. And entirely predictable. Mana is basically unlimited right now (again/already). I expected tweaks to the spirit scaling formula, myself, so as not to impact low-gear-level healers too much, but cost increases work, too.
Meloree
Maintankadonor
 
Posts: 1420
Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2008 10:15 am

Re: 4.2 PTR discussion

Postby Aerron » Wed May 11, 2011 9:39 am

Shoju wrote:They are (not surprising to anyone with a brain who has played a Frost DK) nerfing Obliterate.


And giving Unholy a bit of a boost. Interested to see which fares better post-4.2
Aerron
 
Posts: 475
Joined: Sat Oct 13, 2007 6:33 pm
Location: Richmond, VA

Re: 4.2 PTR discussion

Postby Rhiannon » Wed May 11, 2011 9:44 am

djlar wrote:MTT doesn't only affect the Shaman but all the group of 5... maybe if they increased the MTT buff raid wide or 10 players.. or something..


Mana Tide Totem has been raid wide since 4.06.

Chicken wrote:Pets can only break the Magmatron shield. So anything else you see shield wise isn't due to pets.


Notable exception is a destro imp. The application of Burning Embers will proc Electron's shield, and probably stack Arcanotron's buff as well.
Rhiannon
 
Posts: 1061
Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2008 8:17 am

Re: 4.2 PTR discussion

Postby cerwillis » Wed May 11, 2011 9:44 am

Levantine wrote:Blizzard wanted to make healer mana matter in cataclysm, and so far they've failed miserably at every change they have tried to implement this expansion.

Fixt it for you
Mistawillis - Cerwillis - Turbowillis - Evilan
<Silent Resolve> Durotan/SW:TOR Shii-Cho
Miniwillis <PK> SC
User avatar
cerwillis
Maintankadonor
 
Posts: 1306
Joined: Fri Oct 17, 2008 8:00 am

Re: 4.2 PTR discussion

Postby halabar » Wed May 11, 2011 9:45 am

Epimer wrote:
theckhd wrote:Warlock pets also automatically attack in defensive stance, but they stay on their first target until it's dead.


Oh, so that's why we have Warlock pets breaking shields on Omnotron all the damn time. I didn't know that.


And the new stance won't fix that completely, as it takes 2-3 seconds for the pet to switch.
Amirya wrote:... because everyone needs a Catagonskin rug.

twinkfist wrote:i feel bad for the Mogu...having to deal with alcoholic bears.
User avatar
halabar
 
Posts: 9379
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2007 8:21 am
Location: <in the guild that shall not be named>

Re: 4.2 PTR discussion

Postby halabar » Wed May 11, 2011 9:47 am

Meloree wrote:
Levantine wrote:So yeah, I'm actually all for the mana regen nerfs across the board. (funnily enough they aren't actually across the board, since Priests are only impacted as a side effect of Mana Tide, but still) Blizzard wanted to make healer mana matter in cataclysm, and so far they've failed miserably in the grand scheme.


Yeah. And entirely predictable. Mana is basically unlimited right now (again/already). I expected tweaks to the spirit scaling formula, myself, so as not to impact low-gear-level healers too much, but cost increases work, too.


Imagine the new levels of fail in the Trolls with healers that are already going OOM. The measure of fail will be great.
Amirya wrote:... because everyone needs a Catagonskin rug.

twinkfist wrote:i feel bad for the Mogu...having to deal with alcoholic bears.
User avatar
halabar
 
Posts: 9379
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2007 8:21 am
Location: <in the guild that shall not be named>

Re: 4.2 PTR discussion

Postby djlar » Wed May 11, 2011 9:49 am

Rhiannon wrote:
djlar wrote:MTT doesn't only affect the Shaman but all the group of 5... maybe if they increased the MTT buff raid wide or 10 players.. or something..


Mana Tide Totem has been raid wide since 4.06.

Chicken wrote:Pets can only break the Magmatron shield. So anything else you see shield wise isn't due to pets.


Notable exception is a destro imp. The application of Burning Embers will proc Electron's shield, and probably stack Arcanotron's buff as well.


I'm full of fail or I'm need to learn to read, didn't know LOL (I don't recall being on the 4.06 notes)
Image
djlar
 
Posts: 1894
Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2008 7:30 am

Re: 4.2 PTR discussion

Postby warden » Wed May 11, 2011 10:36 am

Meloree wrote:
theckhd wrote:Is that really the standard? I've always kept my warlock pets on Defensive, but I admit to hating pet micro.


It certainly is in my raid. The number of times that non-passive pets can screw you is fairly large. I generally have a talk with pet classes that have pets on defensive (it's fairly obvious) or that can't micro them (also obvious).

Passive pets won't kill people during Nef MCs, for example.

This^^ I've been killed more than once by [DK gets MC'd-->HW meteors to transformed ghoul (or it just attacks me)-->I get hit a couple times-->Electricute kills me].
Image

"Don't facepalm at me... Ret paladins don't facepalm each other. Its against the code!" -Anafielle
warden
Maintankadonor
 
Posts: 536
Joined: Tue Sep 30, 2008 1:17 pm

Re: 4.2 PTR discussion

Postby fafhrd » Wed May 11, 2011 12:21 pm

theckhd wrote:
halabar wrote:And I completely understand the need for that. But.. why remove aggressive? That has it's place as well. I'd either add the new stance, or replace the existing defensive. Not remove aggressive.

It's a pvp nerf. Gogo rogue QQ results.


Oh sure, I believe you on that note. And I'd be perfectly fine with replacing Defensive with the new stance instead of Aggressive.


I wouldn't, I'd much rather they get rid of agressive if they're getting rid of something for this. Aggressive isn't useful for anything other than PvP around rogues or fishing around low-level mobs. The current defensive is much more useful, the pet instantly goes after anything you get into combat with (without a 3s delay), and doesn't switch targets when you switch targets. With the new assist stance it will do the same but also switch after you switch, but at the cost of a 3s delay at the start if you don't manually tell it to attack. I would much rather have those two options than the current (useful) defensive and a useless agressive (it's rarely worth using even in PvP).

halabar wrote:
Gerunna wrote:Man I can't wait to try out the new pet Assist stance. And hooray for hit and spell pen affecting traps now. And for Rune Strike getting it's big threat back.


What???? It's a nerf. What hunter doesn't have pet attack as part of his opening macro.. HM/petattack/SerpSting...


Er, any hunter who bothered to bind petattack? Why would you want to macro it to other abilities unless all you do is grind mobs? There are tons of times I want to mark or sting without having my pet running around.

halabar wrote:With this new stance the pet waits 3 seconds before attacking? That's a dps loss. Sometimes I want my pet to stay attacking a certain target even if I switch.


Then use Defensive instead of Assist, that's what Defensive is for.

halabar wrote:Im ticked off about this hunter change, the removal of aggressive stance from pets. While it may save some of you tanks some grief from huntards that fail to turn it off in instances, the change is really a pvp nerf to hunters, and a buff to true stealth classes. Aggressive was a great way to sniff out stealthers a hair earlier. It was also good for dealing with large packs of little mobs that needed to be AOEed.

Now, hunters will be even more of a sitting duck for rogues to open up on, and I and my pet will be single-targeting those stupid little masks at the Archeology boss in ZG.. grumble...

The only use for this new stance is if you want your pet to follow to attack whatever target you are attacking without recommanding it. But, it might sit around for 2-3 seconds before choosing to do so. I don't see the point.


I don't understand what you're griping about for AoE - leave the pet on defensive, it will automatically attack as soon as you do (no delay) and if its current target dies it will switch to a new target, without you having to tell it to. If your pet is running back to you between mobs while you're aoeing, it's on passive, not defensive or aggressive.

As for the rogue thing, standing around with your pet on aggressive hoping to destealth a rogue is not a good mechanic. You also can't do it unless it's purely 1v1 since any other hostile player nearby will get your pet running off for no good reason. Losing that ability is no great loss to anything other than pissing off solo rogues.

Are you seriously saying you do BGs or Arenas with your pet on Aggressive?
Last edited by fafhrd on Wed May 11, 2011 12:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
ImageImage
1/1 Lore pre-nerf.
User avatar
fafhrd
 
Posts: 5432
Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2007 2:31 pm

Re: 4.2 PTR discussion

Postby fafhrd » Wed May 11, 2011 12:30 pm

theckhd wrote:Is that really the standard? I've always kept my warlock pets on Defensive, but I admit to hating pet micro.


Mine's about 50/50 these days. Trash I want it to attack without my telling it to, bosses I generally send it in/pull it out manually. I don't think I'd use the new Assist thing, but I can see it getting more use than Aggressive.

It's not exactly a lot of micro, it's two buttons, one for pet attack and one for pet follow or passive. You should definitely have follow/passive bound regardless so you can pull your pet off something or back to you when necessary, so you're basically talking about whether you have pet attack bound or not.

I also have stay/goto bound and passive on a separate bind from follow, but those hardly ever get used. Binding the petspec specific things like Call of the Wild/Roar of Recovery/Intervene/Roar of Sacrifice/Taunt tend to be more annoying. And Cower is actually worth binding now too I guess, although I haven't found a bind for it.
ImageImage
1/1 Lore pre-nerf.
User avatar
fafhrd
 
Posts: 5432
Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2007 2:31 pm

Re: 4.2 PTR discussion

Postby bldavis » Wed May 11, 2011 12:42 pm

yes i do BGs and Arenas with my pet on aggro, well arenas if we are doing a match and see fewer players then should be there (ie doing 2's and only see 1 opposing player)

now that i am calmed down and thought about it, i will actually like the new assist target, depending on how it works.
if the pet switches targets (how it sounds it will) then i will like this for target switching fights
and for single target with adds, ill just use defensive as now

oh and
i am one of those huntards that doesnt have pet attack macroed to ANY ability
90% of the time i already have my pet attacking, and any other time i can do that little bit of micro
(yay for bartender bars!)
Image

Brekkie:Tanks are like shitty DPS. And healers are like REALLY distracted DPS
Amirya:Why yes, your penis is longer than his because you hit 30k dps in the first 10 seconds. But guess what? That raid boss has a dick bigger than your ego.
Flex:I don't make mistakes. I execute carefully planned strategic group wipes.
Levie:(in /g) It's weird, I have a collar and I dont know where I got it from, Worgen are kinky!
Levie:Drunk Lev goes and does what he pleases just to annoy sober Lev.
Sagara:You see, you need to *spread* the bun before you insert the hot dog.
User avatar
bldavis
 
Posts: 7411
Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2009 12:04 pm
Location: Searching for myself. If i get back before I return, please have me stop and wait for myself.

Re: 4.2 PTR discussion

Postby Shoju » Wed May 11, 2011 12:49 pm

On my warlocks (who are still leveling) I have pet attack macro'd to immolate. I don't know how much more often I will use this while leveling, and I haven't played my hutner to do anything but herb since 4.0, and I have warlocks leveled 37 and 44. (ally and horde)
User avatar
Shoju
 
Posts: 6391
Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 7:15 am

Re: 4.2 PTR discussion

Postby Koatanga » Wed May 11, 2011 1:06 pm

Am I missing something? I don't see anything anywhere about removing the /petattack command. I see that in assist stance your pet will wait 3 seconds before *changing* targets, but I see nothing about him waiting 3 seconds at the start of a fight, or not responding to /petattack.

I get the complaints about aggressive stance for PvP, but PvP has always been paper-scissors-rock, so performance vs one class is never going to be something Bliz balances for.
Retired. Koatanga, Shapely, Sultry, Doominatrix of Greenstone - Dath'Remar
Koatanga
 
Posts: 2017
Joined: Mon Nov 17, 2008 12:46 pm

Re: 4.2 PTR discussion

Postby fafhrd » Wed May 11, 2011 1:25 pm

bldavis wrote:yes i do BGs and Arenas with my pet on aggro, well arenas if we are doing a match and see fewer players then should be there (ie doing 2's and only see 1 opposing player)


That would just annoy me so much. It would keep going into melee scrums and getting killed by tab targeters, and being dead when I actually want to use it to put a stun/root/curse of tongues/sunder/coe on the one healer I actually want to kill. Or getting me in combat with people I have no desire to be in combat with, like when running up the WSG tunnel. Usually if i forget to put it on passive and go into a BG with it on Defensive, I first notice that mistake when I want to Master's Call and can't because the pet is dead... aggressive seems like it would be 50 times worse.

Even in the best case where it doesn't die, I certainly don't want it going off to feed procs and heals to some blood DK or warrior I was going to kite.

I suppose if I were BM I'd care more about its actual DPS, but as MM or SV it's usually much more useful for everything it does other than actual melee damage.
ImageImage
1/1 Lore pre-nerf.
User avatar
fafhrd
 
Posts: 5432
Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2007 2:31 pm

PreviousNext

Return to General

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 1 guest

Who is online

In total there are 2 users online :: 1 registered, 0 hidden and 1 guest (based on users active over the past 5 minutes)
Most users ever online was 380 on Tue Oct 14, 2008 6:28 pm

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 1 guest