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4.2 PTR discussion

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Re: 4.2 PTR discussion

Postby Gerunna » Wed May 11, 2011 7:58 am

halabar wrote:
theckhd wrote:I appreciate it on my Warlock, if only because it means I can get rid of several "/petattack" macros. I've only rarely used aggressive, and that was generally in soloing/leveling situations. But I also don't PvP.


But hunter pets already auto-attacked in defensive. So this new stance only really adds redirecting the pet to attack whatever you are. I can see the use for this in multi-boss encounters.. "all dps off of X... swap to Y..." but that's the only use for it I can see. And I hate it for the loss of dps on AOE packs.


This is what I'm happy about, having a choice to make about pet stance based on the situation. I honestly can't remember the last time I set my pet's stance to something other than defensive, so I usually end up having to manually send my pet on a target switch. It'll be nice to have a fire and forget solution for both target switching and parking the pet on a single target.

As for aoe packs, I don't see how this is a dps loss. Normally in defensive stance, once the pet's current target dies he runs back to my side, so I have to send him back after a new target in the pack. With the assist stance there should be less active time lost due to travelling.

I'll give you the point about detecting stealth, but I don't pvp on my hunter at all so it's not that big of a deal to me at least.
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Re: 4.2 PTR discussion

Postby djlar » Wed May 11, 2011 8:13 am

So what's this mana regen nerf all over?

First I heard that druid innervate on raid/party members is nerfed by 1/2, then mana tide totem is nerfed also by 1/2 on top the water shield is nerfed, replaced by some lame-o mana back from direct heal crits.. WTF?

MTT doesn't only affect the Shaman but all the group of 5... maybe if they increased the MTT buff raid wide or 10 players.. or something..
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Re: 4.2 PTR discussion

Postby halabar » Wed May 11, 2011 8:13 am

Gerunna wrote:As for aoe packs, I don't see how this is a dps loss. Normally in defensive stance, once the pet's current target dies he runs back to my side, so I have to send him back after a new target in the pack. With the assist stance there should be less active time lost due to travelling.


That's only if you are targeting each one. But, what if the mob dies before your pet switches to it?

Example: The swarm of tiny masks before the Archeology boss in ZG. What I do now is set pet on aggressive, and let him go to town, while I target one after the other, with occasional multi-shot.

With the change, the pet is either going to run back to me, or wait around for me to select a new target. DPS loss due to pet switching when you didn't want him to, or pet waiting for new target. And what happens when you multi-shot? I bet that is going to confuse the pet.

And also on Jin or other bosses with multiple adds. I'll leave pet on aggressive to attack ghosts if I'm busy dodging things. Again, now a dps loss because your pet won't switch to a new target unless you tell it to, or start attacking a new target yourself.

I'll be interested to see how many hunters drop out of pvp because of this change.
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Re: 4.2 PTR discussion

Postby theckhd » Wed May 11, 2011 8:19 am

I think it's a bit naive to assume they haven't coded this with multi-shot or other AoE spells in mind.

The description indicates that the pet won't change targets immediately, but rather will change once you've maintained a new single target for several seconds. So tab-targeting through a group of mobs will likely leave the pet on the original target, just like defensive stance.

The Jin'do example is one case where losing aggressive is a DPS loss, certainly. Though in that case you could probably put him on a chain while you tab around killing the spirits yourself.

<edit> I should add that it's not clear from the description what happens when the pet's target dies. It might act exactly like Aggressive, but with the pet going to your current target rather than whatever is convenient. At any rate, there's no indication that it will return to your side until you stay on another target for 3-4 seconds. For all we know, this could be "Aggressive Lite," with the only change being that it won't automatically seek new targets unless the master is already in combat. In other words, to prevent it running off and aggroing things on its own, which was the major PvE complaint about Aggressive stance (and PvP advantage, admittedly).
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Re: 4.2 PTR discussion

Postby Aerron » Wed May 11, 2011 8:35 am

Any possibility of getting the notes reposted somewhere for those of us blocked at work? Fight the Power.
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Re: 4.2 PTR discussion

Postby Meloree » Wed May 11, 2011 8:35 am

I don't think this is likely to change the standard habit of "all pets on passive" in raids.

At least, I certainly hope not.

Personal control > trusting the AI to not cause stupid wipes.
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Re: 4.2 PTR discussion

Postby theckhd » Wed May 11, 2011 8:38 am

Is that really the standard? I've always kept my warlock pets on Defensive, but I admit to hating pet micro.
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Re: 4.2 PTR discussion

Postby halabar » Wed May 11, 2011 8:46 am

Meloree wrote:I don't think this is likely to change the standard habit of "all pets on passive" in raids.

At least, I certainly hope not.

Personal control > trusting the AI to not cause stupid wipes.


I always use defensive. It makes sure the pet will change to whatever is attacking me, even if I can't target it at the moment. The only downside is that you have to manually tell it to swap targets, which the new tool would do.

Defensive has it's uses too, so I wouldn't want to loose that.

I'm really really glad I don't do arena anymore...
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Re: 4.2 PTR discussion

Postby bldavis » Wed May 11, 2011 8:53 am

the pet change is going to stop me from doing pvp at all on my hunter

sure im not a huge arena powerhouse, but i do like to do an occasional BG
our only options now are to spam flares, or take it up the bum
(rogues do it from behind ya know :twisted:)

as for raids, i always kept mine on defensive, so i could just unload on the boss and not have to micro my pet to attack or take the dps loss
sure the ui sucks for pet micro, but that is part of playing a pet class
why take away something that there is no need to take away and is fine as is?
this is one of the stupidest changes i have seen
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Re: 4.2 PTR discussion

Postby sherck » Wed May 11, 2011 9:03 am

djlar wrote:So what's this mana regen nerf all over?

First I heard that druid innervate on raid/party members is nerfed by 1/2, then mana tide totem is nerfed also by 1/2 on top the water shield is nerfed, replaced by some lame-o mana back from direct heal crits.. WTF?

MTT doesn't only affect the Shaman but all the group of 5... maybe if they increased the MTT buff raid wide or 10 players.. or something..


On top of that, all Paladin single-target heals were increased in mana cost by about 10%.

I know that Healadins are in a pretty good place right now with mana, but these mana changes are going to make Firelands much more challenging to heal.

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Re: 4.2 PTR discussion

Postby Flex » Wed May 11, 2011 9:08 am

djlar wrote:So what's this mana regen nerf all over?


Just looking at some of the crit rates in our raids, Druids must have a lot of crit rate talents in resto, should be a nice throughput buff for that change alone.
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Re: 4.2 PTR discussion

Postby Epimer » Wed May 11, 2011 9:10 am

theckhd wrote:Warlock pets also automatically attack in defensive stance, but they stay on their first target until it's dead.


Oh, so that's why we have Warlock pets breaking shields on Omnotron all the damn time. I didn't know that.
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Re: 4.2 PTR discussion

Postby Chicken » Wed May 11, 2011 9:13 am

Epimer wrote:
theckhd wrote:Warlock pets also automatically attack in defensive stance, but they stay on their first target until it's dead.


Oh, so that's why we have Warlock pets breaking shields on Omnotron all the damn time. I didn't know that.
Pets can only break the Magmatron shield. So anything else you see shield wise isn't due to pets.
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Re: 4.2 PTR discussion

Postby KysenMurrin » Wed May 11, 2011 9:17 am

Speaking of Omnotron, Spellsteal got a 6 second cooldown. Obviously a massive nerf for Mages on that fight. Spellsteal was pretty damn powerful as a spammable ability, though.
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Re: 4.2 PTR discussion

Postby Levantine » Wed May 11, 2011 9:27 am

So yeah, I'm actually all for the mana regen nerfs across the board. (funnily enough they aren't actually across the board, since Priests are only impacted as a side effect of Mana Tide, but still) Blizzard wanted to make healer mana matter in cataclysm, and so far they've failed miserably in the grand scheme.
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