Ret tanks?

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Ret tanks?

Postby BlackNet » Sun May 08, 2011 9:39 pm

I ran with a ret pally in the guild tonight in deadmines and we did some testing. He put up RF and his TPS was holding steady around 46k. Mine seems to hold around 10-12k. This same ret pally can easily pull off any tank just about anytime during a raid boss fight, not just at the start but in the middle or at the end, in ret he pulls some insane tps with all his stuff blown and going to town.

We have even put hand of salv on him, both with glyph and without and he can still pull (not talking about pulling off just me but many tanks) So this brought up some interesting thinking. Back in ICC days we could toss on some dps gear and yield stuff like this and I am wondering now if ret's can do something very similar to this.

Either way there seems to be a big nasty bug with ret pally's tps generation.
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Re: Ret tanks?

Postby DexterBelgium » Sun May 08, 2011 11:21 pm

Eeehm: RF means Threat = DPS x 3. That means that the Ret pally was doing about 12k DPS. Sounds reasonable. If your TPS was "holding" at 10-12k, you were doing about 2.5-4k dps. Last time I checked, that's pretty much HALF of what you should be doing, even BEFORE vengeance stacking like it would on a boss fight. NOT reasonable. Unless, of cource, you fell victim to the rumoured RF bug that's been going around (have heard stories, haven't had the experience myself) ever since they made RF persist through death.

In short: the Ret pally's TPS wasn't bugged, yours was, most likely.
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Re: Ret tanks?

Postby Mannstein » Mon May 09, 2011 4:01 am

BlackNet wrote: He put up RF and his TPS was holding steady around 46k. Mine seems to hold around 10-12k. (...) Either way there seems to be a big nasty bug with ret pally's tps generation.


Can you please explain the objective of the "test"?
I didn't quite get it... It's:
A) RF increases your threat?
B) More DPS means more TPS?
C) A dps does more DPS that a tank?

Can you please explain so we can "help"?
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Re: Ret tanks?

Postby RedAces » Mon May 09, 2011 4:24 am

hey,

Threat is balanced right now the tank having RF up (or Def Stance, Blood Prese, ...) and the dps having it off (no RF, Unholy/Frost Prese, Berserker / Battle Stance). So of course he'll be able to out-threat you if he has RF up (because even with 100% vengeance you're doing just half his DPS).

BlackNet wrote:So this brought up some interesting thinking. Back in ICC days we could toss on some dps gear and yield stuff like this and I am wondering now if ret's can do something very similar to this.

Bosses / Mobs that don't kill you, this is possible yes. Bosses that "maybe" kill you (Atramedes) you can use Retrigear + Shield + Protspecc to do some crazy damage,
look: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-2 ... 1#Liyandra
I (Liyandra) was tanking and came out #4 of all protadins on Atramedes 25N (and ahead of some lousy trials and movement-fails^^ - please don't flame us, that was our last 25men raid and it was HORRIBLE).
On the majority of bosses you can't do that because you're gonna get gibbed, I had barely 140k HP - no block cap - nothing.

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Re: Ret tanks?

Postby Sabindeus » Mon May 09, 2011 8:13 am

BlackNet wrote:Either way there seems to be a big nasty bug with ret pally's tps generation.

Are you saying he pulls ridiculous threat while RF is up or that he pulls ridiculous threat without RF?
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Re: Ret tanks?

Postby Worldie » Mon May 09, 2011 12:32 pm

No real bug either, ret palas *do* pull a stupidly high amount of threat without RF if they are decently geared.
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Re: Ret tanks?

Postby Fetzie » Mon May 09, 2011 1:22 pm

Our retri pala produces about twice the threat that our other guys do when doing similar DPS
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Re: Ret tanks?

Postby BlackNet » Mon May 09, 2011 2:06 pm

Sabindeus wrote:
BlackNet wrote:Either way there seems to be a big nasty bug with ret pally's tps generation.

Are you saying he pulls ridiculous threat while RF is up or that he pulls ridiculous threat without RF?


He pulls a stupid amount of tps WITHOUT RF on.
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Re: Ret tanks?

Postby Amirya » Mon May 09, 2011 2:28 pm

I'm confused.

If he pulls stupid threat without RF, why did you/he decide he needs to try it with RF? Seems he still does stupid threat.

I guess I'm lost as to the purpose of this particular "ret with RF on" testing.
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Re: Ret tanks?

Postby BlackNet » Mon May 09, 2011 2:34 pm

wanted to see what he would/could pull mostly. how viable it would be and if it could be maintained.
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Re: Ret tanks?

Postby Sabindeus » Mon May 09, 2011 2:37 pm

BlackNet wrote:wanted to see what he would/could pull mostly. how viable it would be and if it could be maintained.


In general any DPS times 3 would be easily enough to hold aggro on other DPS.
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Re: Ret tanks?

Postby lythac » Mon May 09, 2011 3:13 pm

Looking through one of your logs, I'm going to assume the paladin is Filthyx.

On your last Argaloth log he maintained 27k DPS for the first 20 seconds of the fight, peaking at 40k just before Argaloth clumped him. Thankfully he did not turn into a squishy mess as he bubbled soon after.

This is the section - http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-o ... 64&e=16885

For the fight he did 19.4K DPS, so single target once past the start he shouldn't be pulling. The only part of the fight you have to worry about is the start due to vengeance RNG.



AW and pre-potting a str pot should help alleviate the problem.
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Re: Ret tanks?

Postby Brekkie » Mon May 09, 2011 4:55 pm

Ret has it rough in the first 20 seconds of a fight because we don't have a fade or instant threat drop, and we have REALLY strong opener burst.And if you have to hold back on that initial opener sequence, it totally fucks your whole DPS.
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Re: Ret tanks?

Postby masterpoobaa » Mon May 09, 2011 5:24 pm

Ret can be especially ridiculous early in a pull if everything seems to proc...While under the effects of wings.
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Re: Ret tanks?

Postby Worldie » Tue May 10, 2011 1:14 am

masterpoobaa wrote:Ret can be especially ridiculous early in a pull if everything seems to proc...While under the effects of wings.

I once had a stupid amount of DP procs with everything popped (wings, zea, pot, 2k str trinket proc, landslide, hero, etc), according to WoL i did something like 60k DPS for a few seconds. God bless glyphed salv + bubble ^_^
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