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Threat on ZA Trash

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Threat on ZA Trash

Postby Ocin » Fri May 06, 2011 7:16 pm

Is anyone else having threat problems on trash in ZA? There are a few pulls right before and after the bear boss where I'm forced to spam both of my taunts even with a good start to the pull. It literally feels like I'm playing without RF on. I've removed it and re-applied it, but it's still an issue. I've checked all the usual suspects: Seal of Truth up, RF up, threat food buff up. I've tried to put a few extra pieces of threat gear on other than the sword in my armory, and that helps, but I don't like trading off survivability in there just yet.

The main offenders that pull besides those opening with AoE are frost DKs.

Anyone else notice this?
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Re: Threat on ZA Trash

Postby Rhiannon » Fri May 06, 2011 8:44 pm

Two things; frost DKs are pretty ridiculous, threat-wise, at the moment. Second, several of the packs leading up to bear boss are scripted, and don't have active threat tables for a few seconds after, so if you unload too early you'll have nothing left for when they actually become active.
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Re: Threat on ZA Trash

Postby Aubade » Fri May 06, 2011 10:57 pm

Rhiannon wrote:Two things; frost DKs are pretty ridiculous, threat-wise, at the moment. Second, several of the packs leading up to bear boss are scripted, and don't have active threat tables for a few seconds after, so if you unload too early you'll have nothing left for when they actually become active.



This, also, if you're running with a Mage, if they're spellstealing the buff they can threat like mad. on the packs after the Bear boss.
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Re: Threat on ZA Trash

Postby Ocin » Sat May 07, 2011 8:46 am

Rhiannon wrote:Two things; frost DKs are pretty ridiculous, threat-wise, at the moment. Second, several of the packs leading up to bear boss are scripted, and don't have active threat tables for a few seconds after, so if you unload too early you'll have nothing left for when they actually become active.


I've picked up on the pulls that are scripted before the boss, where the mobs have to go to pre-assigned spots before they'll attack, but it's frustrating even on the pulls in that area before the dragonhawk where there's no scripting. Meh, I'll figure something out. I'm just hoping that the next few tiers don't play out like this as far as trash in heroics are concerned, we don't seem to be scaling as well as our DPS counterparts and we're only 1 tier in.
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Re: Threat on ZA Trash

Postby mavfin » Sun May 08, 2011 9:16 am

Ocin wrote:I've picked up on the pulls that are scripted before the boss, where the mobs have to go to pre-assigned spots before they'll attack, but it's frustrating even on the pulls in that area before the dragonhawk where there's no scripting. Meh, I'll figure something out. I'm just hoping that the next few tiers don't play out like this as far as trash in heroics are concerned, we don't seem to be scaling as well as our DPS counterparts and we're only 1 tier in.


Interesting. My (only 347 geared) warrior didn't really have any threat issues in ZA at all with 3 raid-geared DPSers behind me. So my experiences aren't matching yours.
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Re: Threat on ZA Trash

Postby Worldie » Sun May 08, 2011 12:12 pm

I tank ZA myself on my raid geared pala, and heroic geared DK, haven't noticed any threat issue so far. As they said above, you have to be careful on scripted pulls, they have no threat till they do actually aggro you.
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Re: Threat on ZA Trash

Postby Chasey » Sun May 08, 2011 1:55 pm

The problem may be with that trash is the fact you are trying to do to much gathering all those adds. Mark as soon as you see them and make sure you tell the group, hit my target and give me a second. I've noticed a hightened sense of panic with those mobs running right at you.
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Re: Threat on ZA Trash

Postby Aerron » Mon May 09, 2011 9:17 am

mavfin wrote:Interesting. My (only 347 geared) warrior didn't really have any threat issues in ZA at all with 3 raid-geared DPSers behind me. So my experiences aren't matching yours.


Question: what are the classes of your 3 dpsers?

I don't really tank ZA on my paladin (359 atm) but I do on my warrior (351). If my dps is made up of other warriors, death knights, or sometimes Boomkin, there can be issues, if they outgear me. If it's any other class, of any gear level, I never have a problem.

DPS classes with no inherent ability to reduce aggro (other than to simply stop attacking or dieing) are something of a problem. I find it an annoyance when those 3 classes come along for the ride.
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Re: Threat on ZA Trash

Postby Ocin » Mon May 09, 2011 10:21 am

After running it a few times this weekend as a prot pally and fury dps my issues went away when I asked everyone not to unload their AoE the second I touch one mob. There's some really bad DPS in PuG-land.
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Re: Threat on ZA Trash

Postby Shathus » Mon May 09, 2011 11:00 am

Aerron wrote:
mavfin wrote:Interesting. My (only 347 geared) warrior didn't really have any threat issues in ZA at all with 3 raid-geared DPSers behind me. So my experiences aren't matching yours.


Question: what are the classes of your 3 dpsers?

I don't really tank ZA on my paladin (359 atm) but I do on my warrior (351). If my dps is made up of other warriors, death knights, or sometimes Boomkin, there can be issues, if they outgear me. If it's any other class, of any gear level, I never have a problem.

DPS classes with no inherent ability to reduce aggro (other than to simply stop attacking or dieing) are something of a problem. I find it an annoyance when those 3 classes come along for the ride.


The thing is in a PUG, you're assuming the classes that DO have those abilities are actually using them. I think all of us can agree the amount of Hunters that don't FD (or use MD), mages not iceblocking, warlocks soul-shattering, etc is amazing.
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Re: Threat on ZA Trash

Postby Aerron » Mon May 09, 2011 11:03 am

Shathus wrote:The thing is in a PUG, you're assuming the classes that DO have those abilities are actually using them. I think all of us can agree the amount of Hunters that don't FD (or use MD), mages not iceblocking, warlocks soul-shattering, etc is amazing.


True. I mostly run Trolls (and all other instances) with guildies, so I wasn't really considering PuGs, I suppose.

In guild runs, the amount of aggro the wars/DKs/boomkin can build up is still pretty amazing.
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Re: Threat on ZA Trash

Postby KysenMurrin » Mon May 09, 2011 11:14 am

I hate having no threat dump as dps... Hell, I even spam Wind Shear on cooldown sometimes.
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Re: Threat on ZA Trash

Postby Aerron » Mon May 09, 2011 11:29 am

KysenMurrin wrote:I hate having no threat dump as dps... Hell, I even spam Wind Shear on cooldown sometimes.


Enh Shaman are weird in this regard. No threat dump, but they give you guys a threat increasing weapon buff (rockbiter) and an actual Taunt. Does Blizz have some idea that they want this spec tanking somehow?

I admit I haven't looked that close at the class in awhile, did they get rid of the totem that reduces threat? Assuming they must have.
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Re: Threat on ZA Trash

Postby Hrobertgar » Mon May 09, 2011 12:15 pm

As to Enh shammies, I believe Blizz stated that they do want them to be available to OT at lower levels to help make up for a perceived tank shortage. Blizz has also given shammies a threat glyph or something. I'm not certain how many ppl would actually use a shammy tank, but there was at least some intent there.

At lower levels, a dedicated tank isn't as crucial so again i'm not certain how many shammies might have tried tanking.
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Re: Threat on ZA Trash

Postby KysenMurrin » Mon May 09, 2011 12:17 pm

I believe that one was lost in the great purge of 3.0. I wouldn't know, I didn't play Shaman back then.

Anyway, looked it up and turns out Wind Shear actually reduces 5% threat, which isn't as bad as I thought it was (didn't it used to be a small amount of flat threat?).

The taunt they say is so Shaman can pull off brief moments of offtanking when necessary. I also try to use it to pull a CC mob out of a huddle, but generally if they're in the huddle in the first place then you've got a tank on your hands who isn't gonna do you any favours and let you pull it.
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