Remove Advertisements

Avenger Shield Nerf

Warning: Theorycraft inside.

Moderators: Fridmarr, Worldie, Aergis, theckhd

Avenger Shield Nerf

Postby angelflavor » Sun May 01, 2011 12:00 am

Avenger Shield no longer procs Seal of Truth, meaning it can't spread it's dot to more than one target at a time :(
Image
Warning: Experimental Tank
"Warriors make you Sap. Paladins let you Sap"
User avatar
angelflavor
 
Posts: 49
Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2008 12:00 am

Re: Avenger Shield Nerf

Postby Sturmm:) » Sun May 01, 2011 7:17 am

But now it procs Sacred Duty
Sturmm:)
 
Posts: 20
Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2008 8:02 am

Re: Avenger Shield Nerf

Postby Vort » Sun May 01, 2011 2:57 pm

I'd rather it bouncing around stacking Censure for my AoE threat tbh.

Single Target has been lol since the beginning of Vengeance.
Ilyashattack wrote:best ret pally, best prot pally, best jewish paladin, ugliest blood elf haircut person

Gárrosh wrote:You have rung a bell which cannot be unrung. Gladiator Astral and The Scum Cleave are an unstoppable juggernaut of oppression. Can you stop an unstoppable juggernaut of oppression? No you can't it's unstoppable.
Vort
 
Posts: 244
Joined: Sun Dec 19, 2010 4:31 pm

Re: Avenger Shield Nerf

Postby Iminmmnni » Sun May 01, 2011 4:39 pm

Vort wrote:I'd rather it bouncing around stacking Censure for my AoE threat tbh.


I found the Censure stacking annoying for CC pulls as you couldn't throw a shield without the risk of breaking some forms of CC (eg: hunters dropping traps in front of the mob; mages waiting till after the pull to poly, ...).
Iminmmnni
 
Posts: 46
Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2011 4:41 pm
Location: Melbourne

Re: Avenger Shield Nerf

Postby Vort » Sun May 01, 2011 5:16 pm

Iminmmnni wrote:I found the Censure stacking annoying for CC pulls as you couldn't throw a shield without the risk of breaking some forms of CC (eg: hunters dropping traps in front of the mob; mages waiting till after the pull to poly, ...).


Seal Juggle, Pull with Judgement, Glyph for Focused Shield. I want my spreading Censure again.

EDIT: Thought I'd mention Grand Crusader granting Holy Power procs on the CAST not the HIT. Probably gonna get nerfed like our CS/HotR bs.
Ilyashattack wrote:best ret pally, best prot pally, best jewish paladin, ugliest blood elf haircut person

Gárrosh wrote:You have rung a bell which cannot be unrung. Gladiator Astral and The Scum Cleave are an unstoppable juggernaut of oppression. Can you stop an unstoppable juggernaut of oppression? No you can't it's unstoppable.
Vort
 
Posts: 244
Joined: Sun Dec 19, 2010 4:31 pm

Re: Avenger Shield Nerf

Postby Chicken » Mon May 02, 2011 9:13 am

Vort wrote:EDIT: Thought I'd mention Grand Crusader granting Holy Power procs on the CAST not the HIT. Probably gonna get nerfed like our CS/HotR bs.
I doubt it actually. Two reasons:

1. Making it hit based is complicated with a multi-target ability. Does only the initial hit count? Do all hits generate Holy Power? Does any hit give one Holy Power at most? Each of these has different results. The first one is the most punishing for missing, the second one gives ridiculous bursts of Holy Power, the third is a less punishing variation of the first since you get three chances to hit and get your Holy Power for each cast then; the third also has the indirect consequence of making the Glyph of Focused Shield less good.

2. It's a proc. A lot of procs in this game have methods in place to ensure they remain effective even if you miss. Sacred Duty was also recently changed to match this, and was basically the sole exception. Most procs that fade when the proper ability related to them is used only do so on a hit.
Image
User avatar
Chicken
 
Posts: 1597
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 2:19 pm

Re: Avenger Shield Nerf

Postby Iminmmnni » Mon May 02, 2011 4:49 pm

Vort wrote:Thought I'd mention Grand Crusader granting Holy Power procs on the CAST not the HIT. Probably gonna get nerfed like our CS/HotR bs.

Interesting. It's currently modeled as granting HP only if it hits the first first target.
Iminmmnni
 
Posts: 46
Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2011 4:41 pm
Location: Melbourne

Re: Avenger Shield Nerf

Postby Ulrik » Tue May 03, 2011 10:15 pm

I just tested it noticing what it was doing in raids. It doesn't apply censure when it's three targets however, when it's glyphed to one target it does apply a stack.
User avatar
Ulrik
 
Posts: 109
Joined: Wed Apr 16, 2008 8:51 am
Location: New England

Re: Avenger Shield Nerf

Postby Yelena » Wed May 04, 2011 1:19 pm

That would follow the intended change with Seal of Truth then, it was explicitly stated that single target attacks would stack it. Regardless of the multi-target tanking side-effects with the "nerf", an attack that hits (up to) three targets is not an attack which only hits one target.

Edit: We already know it doesn't stack in multi-target mode, but here's a short parse to confirm the glyphed behavior.

Setup: Armory
Log: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/wc3d94hne1jz8g09/

Edit 2: Yes, it still procs SoT if it connects while Censure is already rolling on the target. I confirmed that after I had already uploaded the log. I can upload a new log if we need verifiable evidence of such.
Valleri - Frostwolf
Yelena
 
Posts: 314
Joined: Sat Jun 27, 2009 4:54 am
Location: Behind the Eight Ball

Re: Avenger Shield Nerf

Postby Treck » Thu May 05, 2011 6:43 am

Why do people even care about this?

Fully stacked SoT does 300 dps.
Hammer is doing like 20k dps.
Is SoT really even a matter.
All seal dmg in total stands for maybe about 15% of your total dps, maybe 10% of that is from the dot, tops, and thats in a single target enviroment.
If there were aoe involved, your dps would go a lot higher, but your seal dmg wouldnt even be noticable, EVEN with 3x fully stacked SoT ticking for like 1k dps in total, when your doing about 30k dps, who could care less.
Image
User avatar
Treck
 
Posts: 2114
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 8:10 am

Re: Avenger Shield Nerf

Postby Iminmmnni » Thu May 05, 2011 7:00 am

Treck wrote:Why do people even care about this?


Because we have a choice of seals and wish to use the most appropriate one. An ability stacking Censure reduces our threat ramp-up time as well as giving us additional ranged threat. As threat is meaningful at the start of a fight, and on mobs we can't melee (for whatever reason), it does make a difference.

Treck wrote:EVEN with 3x fully stacked SoT ticking for like 1k dps in total, when your doing about 30k dps, who could care less.


Which using your numbers is 3% extra damage. Most gear upgrades are less than this.
Iminmmnni
 
Posts: 46
Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2011 4:41 pm
Location: Melbourne

Re: Avenger Shield Nerf

Postby Treck » Thu May 05, 2011 11:09 am

Iminmmnni wrote:Because we have a choice of seals and wish to use the most appropriate one. An ability stacking Censure reduces our threat ramp-up time as well as giving us additional ranged threat. As threat is meaningful at the start of a fight, and on mobs we can't melee (for whatever reason), it does make a difference.

My point is, your not going to notice any change.


Iminmmnni wrote:Which using your numbers is 3% extra damage. Most gear upgrades are less than this.

The differance is that we do not gear towards doing more threat, we just sorta get it.
And the threat a 346 tank can put out wont be much different from a 372 tank.
Image
User avatar
Treck
 
Posts: 2114
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 8:10 am

Re: Avenger Shield Nerf

Postby Chanserv » Thu May 12, 2011 3:17 am

Yea I noticed that since the patch hit, never saw any one post here about it thought I was just being dumb.. I miss it on some fights.
Chanserv
 
Posts: 34
Joined: Fri Feb 06, 2009 11:30 am

Re: Avenger Shield Nerf

Postby Dravan » Wed May 18, 2011 4:18 am

Moaners will moan, really can't see how it makes much difference. Much more annoying is that DPS warriors now seem to do even more burst aoe threat, which makes the aoe tanking all the more fun!
Dravan
 
Posts: 32
Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2010 2:29 am


Return to Advanced Theorycraft and Calculations

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


Remove Advertisements

Who is online

In total there is 1 user online :: 0 registered, 0 hidden and 1 guest (based on users active over the past 5 minutes)
Most users ever online was 380 on Tue Oct 14, 2008 6:28 pm

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest