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[10] Cho'gall -- Normal Strategy

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Re: [10] Cho'gall -- Normal Strategy

Postby Shathus » Tue Apr 19, 2011 8:20 am

Epimer wrote:
Shathus wrote:I def caused a wipe or two letting a tank die, but it was just due to getting used to the fight and healing again in general.


Have you got a way of tracking defensive cooldown usage (e.g. GridStatusTankCooldown)? Since you have an off-spec tank they might not be particularly vigilant with their cooldown usage; make sure they're using something for Flame's Orders, because that's the only thing which should regularly endanger a tank's life.

I massively notice the difference when I'm healing this and it's the tank who's good with cooldowns on the boss vs. the one who uses a 20% cooldown when he's already at 15% health.


I've got ora3 (think that's the right one) to track raid-wide CDs in general, but have them showing most of the major tank ones as well I believe. My biggest problem was just either, getting caught staring at health bars too much, or "hmm, X's corruption level is higher than it should...SHITSHIT shadowcrash" and go running around the room flailing with my arms in the air :) Normal healer stuff that I just haven't dealt with in months/years.

The off-spec tank was one of the main-spec tanks with me in the last expansion so he's generally pretty good about CDs and such.
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Re: [10] Cho'gall -- Normal Strategy

Postby Cascadian » Tue Apr 19, 2011 8:51 am

AIRchrist wrote:TL;dr- I know how to successfully tank Cho'gall, but due to poor guild raid comp, fail terribly. Need to know if having me tank on my pally will turn us around. Thanks in advance.


Pally Tanks rock on Cho'gall. Avenger's Shield bouncing to 3 targets will help with Worship. Hits Cho'gall, then if your team is stacked on his butt it gets those 2 players out quick. Pally Tanks can also bubble off the Fury of Cho'gall stacks. Pally Tanks are just all around OP right now compared to any other tank classes.

Divine Guardian for 20% raid damage reduction every 2 minutes on EVERYONE?
Give me 2 Pally Tanks in every raid group. We will pop Divine Guardian for every single Nefarian Crackle on 25 people.
Give me 3 Pally Tanks in a 25 man raid.

Chaining together bubbles on Halfus when Slate is up? Easy. Pally Tanks don't have to swap Halfus as often.

Pally Tanks don't even bother changing platforms on Nezir. We just bubble those stacks off.
Divine Guardian during ultimate makes that a joke for the entire raid.

Your GM is a fool if he doesn't realize the utility of bringing a Pally Tank to the raid.
Hell, I want 4 Paladins in every raid so we get all their auras active.
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Re: [10] Cho'gall -- Normal Strategy

Postby domipal » Tue Apr 19, 2011 12:37 pm

Cascadian wrote:
AIRchrist wrote:TL;dr- I know how to successfully tank Cho'gall, but due to poor guild raid comp, fail terribly. Need to know if having me tank on my pally will turn us around. Thanks in advance.


Pally Tanks rock on Cho'gall. Avenger's Shield bouncing to 3 targets will help with Worship. Hits Cho'gall, then if your team is stacked on his butt it gets those 2 players out quick. Pally Tanks can also bubble off the Fury of Cho'gall stacks. Pally Tanks are just all around OP right now compared to any other tank classes.

Divine Guardian for 20% raid damage reduction every 2 minutes on EVERYONE?
Give me 2 Pally Tanks in every raid group. We will pop Divine Guardian for every single Nefarian Crackle on 25 people.
Give me 3 Pally Tanks in a 25 man raid.

Chaining together bubbles on Halfus when Slate is up? Easy. Pally Tanks don't have to swap Halfus as often.

Pally Tanks don't even bother changing platforms on Nezir. We just bubble those stacks off.
Divine Guardian during ultimate makes that a joke for the entire raid.

Your GM is a fool if he doesn't realize the utility of bringing a Pally Tank to the raid.
Hell, I want 4 Paladins in every raid so we get all their auras active.


I'm pretty sure every class has their advantages on any fight, (other than nezir lol thats pretty cool we don't have to swap). Even cho'gall, warriors can shockwave and heroic leap to get to boss faster after add is dead, bears can charge and brez and pull awesome dps as a tank, DK can self heal a lot help out healers.
ANd i dont think you can bubble fury stacks? I've tried before but it didn't take off my debuffs.
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Re: [10] Cho'gall -- Normal Strategy

Postby Shathus » Tue Apr 19, 2011 1:36 pm

I want Heroic Leap so that I can stack all the pools from the Corrupted Adherent's directly on top of each other :(

Saw a video of that which makes all the little slimes appear at the same place at the same time and made it look easy.
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Re: [10] Cho'gall -- Normal Strategy

Postby Meloree » Tue Apr 19, 2011 1:56 pm

Shathus wrote:I want Heroic Leap so that I can stack all the pools from the Corrupted Adherent's directly on top of each other :(

Saw a video of that which makes all the little slimes appear at the same place at the same time and made it look easy.


Yes. One thousand times yes. There have been so many places in progression this tier that I've been dying for some reliable form of mobility.
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Re: [10] Cho'gall -- Normal Strategy

Postby inthedrops » Tue Apr 19, 2011 3:18 pm

Meloree wrote:
Shathus wrote:I want Heroic Leap so that I can stack all the pools from the Corrupted Adherent's directly on top of each other :(

Saw a video of that which makes all the little slimes appear at the same place at the same time and made it look easy.


Yes. One thousand times yes. There have been so many places in progression this tier that I've been dying for some reliable form of mobility.


I also think Shield Block is an incredibly powerful talent when timed well. I don't buy into any generalized paladins are OP arguments. We have our moments :)

For Cho'gall, our Avenger's Shield and DG are very nice tools.
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Re: [10] Cho'gall -- Normal Strategy

Postby saif » Wed Apr 20, 2011 1:52 pm

Been pulling Cho'gall for 2 nights and wipe sub-1million over and over.

Running with 2 healers and 2 tanks. Phase 1 is really clean at this point, we head into phase 2 with little corruption (<20 raid-wide) and manage to burn him down to ~1% or so. Had a few very, very low wipes (<100k) but just can't seem to pull out a win. All the DPS are using our hunter as focus for tentacles in phase 2, whichever tank is taunted off is responsible for interrupts on tentacles. He's up against a wall but tentacles still seem to be spread out a bit. I check friendly fire and very little of it is from vomit (should it be zero from vomit?). Any hints to clean up phase 2 would be appreciated.
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Re: [10] Cho'gall -- Normal Strategy

Postby inthedrops » Wed Apr 20, 2011 1:58 pm

saif wrote:Any hints to clean up phase 2 would be appreciated.


I'd put all dps on tentacles and also use loose rules; set melee to only get tentacles near the boss. Have ranged focus on the tentacles furthest away. Having only the extra tank interrupt while everyone else is focusing down a single tentacle at a time is asking for a TON of casts going out.

People's natural instinct is to try to burn Cho'gall that last 5% and ignore tentacles while thinking "We got this!". Don't do that.
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Re: [10] Cho'gall -- Normal Strategy

Postby Belloc » Wed Apr 20, 2011 2:56 pm

Don't have everyone assisting your hunter for their tentacles. Tab target to the nearest tentacle and kill it. If you see two people already on a tentacle, find another. You want your DPS to be spread out for these.

As far as the vomit goes, people can either watch their debuffs or they can make a power aura. I don't remember the name of the debuff, but I'm pretty sure I usually notice it. Once it appears, you have a few seconds to face away from the raid or move a bit. Make sure people are watching for that.
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Re: [10] Cho'gall -- Normal Strategy

Postby Fetzie » Thu Apr 21, 2011 1:49 am

3 seconds before you puke you get a blizzard emote "you are feeling ill" or similar iirc.
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Re: [10] Cho'gall -- Normal Strategy

Postby agetro » Wed Apr 27, 2011 9:17 pm

My guild seems to always wipe shortly after the 1st add appears. There is a tank swap after the 1st fury of cho'gall, then for some reason the new tank on cho'gall gets totally owned; whether its me or the other guy. If someone is pro on reading world logs, can you tell me what's going on? Hopefully I link it correctly. http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/ojwm ... 392&e=8547
Thanks much!
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Re: [10] Cho'gall -- Normal Strategy

Postby Fetzie » Thu Apr 28, 2011 4:48 am

Cho'gall puts up flame orders about ten seconds after he uses Fury of Cho'gall. Your healers are distracted in this phase because they have to move, the first tank is kiting an add to the door, there are shadow crashes flying at them so they need to move.

The boss tank needs to use a cooldown for flame orders. The healers need to not panic. Work on it and you'll get it soon enough :)

taking a closer look at your log, your tank damage problem seems to be Worship.

Code: Select all
[22:27:29.865] Cho'gall gains Twisted Devotion from Wraithann
[22:27:30.930] Cho'gall gains Twisted Devotion (2) from Wraithann
[22:27:32.864] Cho'gall gains Twisted Devotion (3) from Wraithann
[22:27:33.923] Cho'gall gains Twisted Devotion (4) from Wraithann
[22:27:35.877] Cho'gall gains Twisted Devotion (5) from Wraithann


here a Worship stacks up 5 stacks of Twisted devotion on Cho'gall. This means he is doing 50% more damage, which explains the massive hits your DK is taking.

Code: Select all
[22:27:35.711] Cho'gall hits Zedael 84714
[22:27:37.034] Cho'gall Unleashed Shadows Zedael 29165 (R: 11322)
[22:27:37.208] Cho'gall hits Zedael 45214 (O: 29826)
[22:27:37.627] Zedael dies


and explains why you all died simultaneously:

Code: Select all
[22:27:34.108] Cho'gall Unleashed Shadows Kohnan 25421 (R: 6355)
[22:27:37.034] Cho'gall Unleashed Shadows Kohnan 33673 (R: 3741)
-
[22:27:37.034] Cho'gall Unleashed Shadows Antimonious 29343 (R: 7336)
[22:27:40.196] Cho'gall Unleashed Shadows Antimonious 30504 (R: 7626)
...etc


You need to interrupt the worship quicker.

Your guys also need to not be hit by the slimes

Code: Select all
[22:27:42.542] Blood of the Old God hits Andas Absorb (9055)
[22:27:43.031] Blood of the Old God hits Andas Absorb (9025)
[22:27:43.239] Blood of the Old God hits Andas Absorb (8917)
[22:27:44.451] Blood of the Old God hits Andas 8162 (R: 2040)
[22:28:08.541] Blood of the Old God hits Wraithann 11977 (R: 1331)
[22:28:08.541] Blood of the Old God hits Wraithann Miss
[22:28:08.541] Blood of the Old God hits Wraithann 8616 (R: 957)


and not stand in fire

Code: Select all
[22:27:05.986] Unknown Blaze Marpesia 6529 (A: 2498, R: 3869)
[22:27:06.966] Unknown Blaze Marpesia 7971 (R: 5314)
[22:27:08.081] Unknown Blaze Marpesia 10523 (R: 2631)
[22:27:08.081] Unknown Blaze Marpesia 10509 (R: 2627)
[22:27:08.857] Unknown Blaze Marpesia 8885 (R: 3808)
[22:27:15.711] Unknown Blaze Marpesia 8902 (R: 3815)
[22:27:15.711] Unknown Blaze Antimonious 8903 (R: 3816)


and not be hit by the Corrupting Crash

Code: Select all
[22:26:58.432] Corrupting Adherent Corrupting Crash Zedael Absorb (24399)
[22:26:58.432] Corrupting Adherent Corrupting Crash Kohnan 36253 (R: 9063)
[22:27:34.703] Corrupting Adherent Corrupting Crash Marpesia 29554 (A: 6076, R: 8907)


You need to kill the adherent quicker:
Code: Select all
[22:27:24.809] Corrupting Adherent gains Festering Blood from Corrupting Adherent

and your rogue need to dps it too. You also need to make sure you interrupt the Depravity cast every time.

You need to have all your range dps on the slimes.

You can get this information by entering the following stuff into the Expression Editor

Code: Select all
spell = 'Corrupting Crash' -- people getting hit by the shadow crash
spell = 'Depravity' -- depravity not being interrupted
spell = 'Festering Blood' -- add not being killed quick enough
sourcename = 'Blood of the Old God' -- being hit by the slimes
spell = 'Spilled Blood of the Old God' and amount > 1 -- people standing in the black puddle that they should never be standing in
spell = 'Blaze' -- people standing in fire
spell = 'Twisted Devotion' -- stacks of the buff Cho'gall gets when worship is not interrupted fast enough
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/ojwm5tkv3bz2gbpa/deaths/?s=8392&e=8547 -- the death log of the Cho'gall attempt


Does this help?
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Re: [10] Cho'gall -- Normal Strategy

Postby agetro » Thu Apr 28, 2011 1:05 pm

Very much so! Yea, slimes came after tank died so we knew it was over. Poor Marpesia, it was her first time there. :) And I guess Cho'Gall needs to be moved a bit more for the Crash.

I had kited the Big Add to the bottom of the stairway immediately. I forget what happened, but I interrupted that first Depravity, and was out of range for the second one. I think I might have gone to pick up Cho'Gall. What do you mean Rogue needs to DPS it too?
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Re: [10] Cho'gall -- Normal Strategy

Postby Fetzie » Thu Apr 28, 2011 1:14 pm

agetro wrote:Very much so! Yea, slimes came after tank died so we knew it was over. Poor Marpesia, it was her first time there. :) And I guess Cho'Gall needs to be moved a bit more for the Crash.

I had kited the Big Add to the bottom of the stairway immediately. I forget what happened, but I interrupted that first Depravity, and was out of range for the second one. I think I might have gone to pick up Cho'Gall. What do you mean Rogue needs to DPS it too?


Damage taken by Corrupting Adherent:
Code: Select all
Damage taken from
Actor    Amount
Chocula    381383    34.2 %
Sveinn    351324    31.5 %
Agetro    308346    27.7 %
Onyx    73622    6.6 %
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Sagara wrote:You see, you need to *spread* the bun before you insert the hot dog.

bldavis wrote:we are trying to extend it as long as we can...it just never seems to last very long
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Re: [10] Cho'gall -- Normal Strategy

Postby agetro » Thu Apr 28, 2011 2:00 pm

Uhm, from what I can assume, only reason to put "the rogue" on Adherents is because she didn't do too good near Cho'Gall? Or is it because of the abilities of the Rogue class that helps?
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