Remove Advertisements

Recommended Reading?(Fantasy)

Invisusira's playground

Moderators: Aergis, Invisusira

Re: Recommended Reading?(Fantasy)

Postby KysenMurrin » Wed Apr 20, 2011 11:10 pm

Having multiple plotlines and an ensemble cast is not automatically a flaw. Just because you personally can't keep track doesn't mean it doesn't work.
I don't play WoW any more.
Donnan - Nangun - Kysen - Kysen - Mardun - Timkins

Mostly-Book Blog.
KysenMurrin
 
Posts: 6808
Joined: Thu Jun 26, 2008 6:37 am
Location: UK

Re: Recommended Reading?(Fantasy)

Postby Fivelives » Thu Apr 21, 2011 1:08 am

I'm not saying it's a flaw, just that there's such a thing as too much. Martin and Jordan are a perfect example of having too much to keep track of. I suggested that as a general rule of thumb, if you can't fit all of your main protagonists inside a book that's 800+ pages long then you've got WAY too many characters.

For Jordan, it's somewhat forgiveable, since they're currently on book 12 (plus the prologue book, New Spring). For Martin? Not so much. See, everyone has their favorite characters. For me, I like Perrin and Mat in WoT, and Tywin Lannister and Arya Stark in ASoIaF. If I go for a full novel reading about characters I either don't like or don't care about at all, then I start losing interest in the series.

ASoIaF in particular wouldn't have lost anything but page count by cutting out all of Daenerys' interactions with Viserys and Khal Drogo. It could've easily picked up with her getting the eunuch army and then having a supplemental book (or series) published about her exploits before she becomes a main antagonist in the seven kingdoms.
- I'm not Jesus, but I can turn water into Kool-Aid.
- A Sergeant in motion outranks an officer who doesn't know what the hell is going on.
- A demolitions specialist at a flat run outranks everybody.
User avatar
Fivelives
 
Posts: 3106
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 7:55 pm

Re: Recommended Reading?(Fantasy)

Postby Shyrtandros » Thu Apr 21, 2011 6:16 am

Torquemada wrote:I also liked most of R.A. Salvatore's Drizzt books. I'd suggest starting chronologically in the stores with Homeland, rather than chronologically according to when the books were writen with The Crystal Shard. I gave up on the series after finishing the Hunter's Blades trilogy, and from what I've seen online the Transitions trilogy kills off just about every character I loved in the wake of the Spellplague that WotC is currently ruining Forgotten Realms with.


I was worried about this too and thought I would lose interest, it is suprising that the books still continue to be amazing and worth the time / money.
"Warning: AA posts may cause severe urges to buy or rent games you may not have been interested in, known about or would normally consider playing. If you experience sudden urges to purchase said games please consult your wallet, bank account or significant other to see if these games are right for you and your budget."
User avatar
Shyrtandros
 
Posts: 818
Joined: Thu Dec 10, 2009 7:54 am

Re: Recommended Reading?(Fantasy)

Postby Aerron » Thu Apr 21, 2011 8:31 am

Fivelives wrote:I'm not saying it's a flaw, just that there's such a thing as too much. Martin and Jordan are a perfect example of having too much to keep track of. I suggested that as a general rule of thumb, if you can't fit all of your main protagonists inside a book that's 800+ pages long then you've got WAY too many characters.


Different strokes for different folks, as the saying goes. I enjoy the complexity and broad picture that Martin paints.

I do agree that too many characters can ruin a story, but I generally find that to be true in single, stand alone novels. Martin has a lot of room to work with.
Aerron
 
Posts: 475
Joined: Sat Oct 13, 2007 6:33 pm
Location: Richmond, VA

Re: Recommended Reading?(Fantasy)

Postby Dane » Thu Apr 21, 2011 9:21 am

Here's my 2 cents. Nothing really new, but one more opinion to account for.

I'm nearly done with Game of Thrones (First Song of Fire and Ice book, not the series...at least, as it currently stands. I guess NO ONE is really "done" with it yet.)

I picked it up at the repeated urging of a co-worker, and I've been completely hooked. I haven't had a story draw me in this completely for quite some time. I highly recommend this series.

As for Ender's Game...let me preface this by saying that I am a HUGE OSC fan. To the point of attending book signings, and tracking down online transcripts of lectures and talks he's given, because I just like how his mind works, and to read his words.

That said, Ender's Game is one of the least of his works. It's FAR from bad, and I suspect that it's so well loved because it's highly acessible, whereas other books of his take a little "getting into," but it WAS his first published novel...and it shows in his style. If you like Ender's Game, do yourself a favor and try his other stuff, even if it takes a few chapters to really get into. They're well worth it.
Image
Image
Dane
 
Posts: 1363
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2007 9:16 pm

Re: Recommended Reading?(Fantasy)

Postby KysenMurrin » Thu Apr 21, 2011 9:50 am

Fivelives wrote:ASoIaF in particular wouldn't have lost anything but page count by cutting out all of Daenerys' interactions with Viserys and Khal Drogo. It could've easily picked up with her getting the eunuch army and then having a supplemental book (or series) published about her exploits before she becomes a main antagonist in the seven kingdoms.

But she' not really an antagonist. Her story in A Game of Thrones is not a prelude. It's a story about how a weak and passive girl unable to escape the influence of her brother ends up, through her forced marriage to Khal Drogo, growing into a strong, confident woman.

You can't say the book would have lost nothing by cutting her storyline - it would have lost a strong storyline. Maybe every character's story could have been published in a seperate volume, but the way they all tie together and are interweaved is part of crafting a story with such a large scale. The interaction of the various plot threads is part of what makes the books good.
I don't play WoW any more.
Donnan - Nangun - Kysen - Kysen - Mardun - Timkins

Mostly-Book Blog.
KysenMurrin
 
Posts: 6808
Joined: Thu Jun 26, 2008 6:37 am
Location: UK

Re: Recommended Reading?(Fantasy)

Postby Brekkie » Thu Apr 21, 2011 1:50 pm

There's a point where you cross the line between "this is a well crafted story" to "I reinvented the history of the world and attempted to put it in novel series form in it's entirety."
Theckhd wrote:big numbers are the in-game way of expressing that Brekkie's penis is huge.
Brekkie
 
Posts: 953
Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2010 7:44 pm

Re: Recommended Reading?(Fantasy)

Postby amh » Thu Apr 21, 2011 4:19 pm

Nearly four full pages and not a single Sword of Truth (Terry Goodkind) mention? The series feels a but hurried at the end, but it's well worth the read.

I recently picked up Joe Abercrombie's The Sword Itself, and I'll be buying the rest of the series asap.

Other great (finished) series: Age of the Five (Trudi Canavan), The Black Magician (Trudi Canavan), Deed of Paksenarrion (Elizabeth Moon, trilogy finished but she's writing more novels in the same world).

Also, another vote for Sanderson's Way of Kings, although if you prefer complete series, you'll have to wait 10ish years. :)
I used to play a paladin.
User avatar
amh
Maintankadonor
 
Posts: 3012
Joined: Fri May 02, 2008 6:25 am
Location: Oh hi

Re: Recommended Reading?(Fantasy)

Postby sapientialb » Thu Apr 21, 2011 4:53 pm

Janny Wurts's The Wars of Light and Shadow series is pretty amazing if you can find it. Very interesting take on how magic works.
Kate Elliott's Crown of Stars series is awesome stuff too.

I'll 5th or 6th Sanderson, but really enjoy the Mistborn Chronicles over the others...the way the ending turns out is pretty cool.
Image

"Tanks need many stats, including No-blink crotch staring resistance" - Snake-Aes
sapientialb
 
Posts: 317
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 1:10 pm

Re: Recommended Reading?(Fantasy)

Postby Aerron » Thu Apr 21, 2011 9:19 pm

sapientialb wrote:Kate Elliott's Crown of Stars series is awesome stuff too.


I loved the first few novels in that series, but somewhere around books 5 or 6 I just felt like she sort of came off the rails. I did enjoy the ending however.
Aerron
 
Posts: 475
Joined: Sat Oct 13, 2007 6:33 pm
Location: Richmond, VA

Re: Recommended Reading?(Fantasy)

Postby Garov » Thu Apr 21, 2011 11:14 pm

Someone mentioned Steven Erickson (Excellent pick). My counter suggestion would be Glenn Cook. The Black Company series is so obviously Erickson's inspiration and it's such a fantastic freaking story I can't stop thinking it's my top fantasy pick of all time. Fantasy from a grunt mercenary point of view. It's so damn good.

Dies the Fire by S.M. Stirling is the start to a great post apocalyptic series that's really turned out cool. Electricity stops working, firearms stop working, combustion engines stop working. It's basically "let's throw current day society into the dark ages".

Night Angel Trilogy by Brent Weeks is a fun quick little trilogy. Orphan kid gets picked up by an assassin and trains in order to get out of the gutter.

The Hundred Thousand Kingdoms by N.K. Jemisin. Gods being enslaved by a royal family and used to maintain control over the world for the ruling class. Very different but very interesting book. There is a 2nd in the series where the main protagonist is a blind woman. It's really cool because both books are totally about the outsider looking in.

Someone had also mentioned Robin Hobb. Her books are great if you want to see a main character get f'd in the A around every corner. She has a singular talent for making her characters suffer throughout her books. Her Soldier Son series is really cool.

Rain Storm by Barry Eisler for a totally different genre. It's a Bourne Identity type book. I really liked it because the author is a heavy martial arts practitioner and it comes through in the fight scenes. The main character, John Rain, is such a loveable tortured assassin.
Image
Garov
 
Posts: 306
Joined: Wed May 09, 2007 7:19 am

Re: Recommended Reading?(Fantasy)

Postby KysenMurrin » Fri Apr 22, 2011 3:14 am

amh wrote:Nearly four full pages and not a single Sword of Truth (Terry Goodkind) mention? The series feels a but hurried at the end, but it's well worth the read.

No. No no no. No.

There was a time when I did actually read Goodkind and didn't realise just how bad it was, but over the course of the series it became pretty clear. I somehow made it to book 8 before I found I just couldn't take any more. Now I can't look at any of his writing without cringing.
I don't play WoW any more.
Donnan - Nangun - Kysen - Kysen - Mardun - Timkins

Mostly-Book Blog.
KysenMurrin
 
Posts: 6808
Joined: Thu Jun 26, 2008 6:37 am
Location: UK

Re: Recommended Reading?(Fantasy)

Postby Mannstein » Fri Apr 22, 2011 7:09 am

Snake-Aes wrote:It dies at opinion then. I liked 5 and 7 the most, followed by 6 and 4.
Just how much "fantastic" you want?

If you know Portuguese(don't think these were ever translated), don't miss on the Tormenta trilogy(O Inimigo Do Mundo, O Crânio e o Corvo, O Terceiro Deus; in order). That's what comes to mind at the moment.


OMG another Portuguese?

i'll pick those up to give it a try
An open mind is like a fortress with its gates unbarred and unguarded.
Mannstein
 
Posts: 384
Joined: Fri Jun 11, 2010 5:40 am

Re: Recommended Reading?(Fantasy)

Postby Fivelives » Fri Apr 22, 2011 8:50 am

KysenMurrin wrote:But she' not really an antagonist. Her story in A Game of Thrones is not a prelude. It's a story about how a weak and passive girl unable to escape the influence of her brother ends up, through her forced marriage to Khal Drogo, growing into a strong, confident woman.


At this point, I would say that the protagonist is the seven kingdoms, and the antagonists are the invading forces. That's usually how it goes when you have a political intrigue fantasy series. So who cares (in terms of the main story) how the antagonist got the way they are, unless it holds the key for the protagonist overcoming them in the end - like Freddy Krueger or Jason Voorheis.

To use another analogy, the Forsaken (or Chosen, depending) from the Wheel of Time novels. They're effective antagonists and we don't have to know anything about them other than "they're evil, they did something bad, and now we have to kick their asses". We don't have to know shit about them like, how they lost their virginity, or how they had abusive siblings, or anything to accept them as antagonists. Same thing with the Dark One - we don't have to know how often, on average, he washes his hands after taking a piss.

You can't say the book would have lost nothing by cutting her storyline - it would have lost a strong storyline. Maybe every character's story could have been published in a seperate volume, but the way they all tie together and are interweaved is part of crafting a story with such a large scale. The interaction of the various plot threads is part of what makes the books good.


Sure, it would've lost a storyline (whether it's strong or not is debatable, personally I could care less about this one in particular), but would the series as a whole suffered because of it? That's like saying I'm suffering because I've never driven a Bugatti Veyron before. If I don't know what it's like to have driven it, I'm not exactly suffering because of a lack of it.
- I'm not Jesus, but I can turn water into Kool-Aid.
- A Sergeant in motion outranks an officer who doesn't know what the hell is going on.
- A demolitions specialist at a flat run outranks everybody.
User avatar
Fivelives
 
Posts: 3106
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 7:55 pm

Re: Recommended Reading?(Fantasy)

Postby Shyrtandros » Fri Apr 22, 2011 8:55 am

I have compiled a list of (most of) the books everyone has recommended. I have not yet sorted through to eliminate anything non-fantasy, but my hopes are to break the lists into different genres (since some people offered books outside the requested genre) I will gladly add any books to this list if anyone would like. If just the author was recommended I didn't include the suggestion.

Personally I plan on researching the books that where repeatedly recommended (like Wheel of Time, A song of Fire and Ice, and some others). I also plan on sticking to book series that are completed or at least deeply developed (or near completion).

List is ordered by name of author (yes, I know it SHOULD be in order by authors last name.. but i'm lazy)

Title ----------------------- Author
Dragonlance Series -------------- (Multiple Authors)
Chronicles of Pern -------------- Ann McCaffrey
Black Jewels Series -------------- Anne Bishop's
Foundation trilogy -------------- Asimov
Elantris -------------- Brandon Sanderson
Warbreaker -------------- Brandon Sanderson
Mistborn -------------- Brandon Sanderson
The way of kings -------------- Brandon Sanderson
Night Angel Trilogy -------------- Brent Weeks
Black Sun C.S. -------------- Friedman
Tiger & Del Series -------------- CJ Cherryh
Chronicles of the Cheysuli -------------- CJ Cherryh
Pendragon -------------- D. J. Machale
Belgariad -------------- David Edding
Mallorean -------------- David Edding
Deed of Paksenarrion -------------- Elizabeth Moon
The Book of Swords -------------- Fred Saberhagen
Fafhrd and The Gray Mouser -------------- Fritz Leiber
Song of Ice and Fire -------------- George R. R. Martin
The Black Company -------------- Glenn Cook
Chronicles of the Raven -------------- James Barclay
The Wars of Light and Shadow -------------- Janny Wurts
Dresden Files (Unfinished) -------------- Jim Butcher
Codex Alera -------------- Jim Butcher
The Sword Itself -------------- Joe Abercrombie
Tales of Einarinn -------------- Juliet E McKenna
Godspeaker Trilogy -------------- Karen Miller
Crown of Stars -------------- Kate Elliott
The Saga of Recluse -------------- L. E. Modesitt, Jr.
The Ethos Effect -------------- L. E. Modesitt, Jr.
The Parafaith War -------------- L. E. Modesitt, Jr.
Ringworld saga -------------- Larry Niven
Star of the Guardians -------------- Margaret Weiss
The Age of Misrule -------------- Mark Chadbourn
Merlin Trilogy -------------- Mary Stewart
Iron Tower trilogy -------------- McKiernan
Dragon Prince trilogy -------------- Melanie Rawn
The Elric Series -------------- Michael Moorcock
The Hundred Thousand Kingdoms -------------- N.K. Jemisin
Ender's game -------------- Orson Scott Card
Shadows series -------------- Orson Scott Card
Riddlemaster of Hed -------------- Patricia McKillip
Kingkiller Chronices (Unfinished) -------------- Patrick Rothfuss
His Dark Materials Trilogy -------------- Philip Pullman
Riftwar Saga -------------- Raymond E. Feist
Mistress of Empire series -------------- Raymond E. Feist
Shardik and Maia -------------- Richard Adams
Watership Down -------------- Richard Adams
MYTH Inc. -------------- Robert Asprin
Wheel of Time Series (Unfinished) -------------- Robert Jordan
Farseer trilogy -------------- Robin Hobb
Hero and the Crown -------------- Robin McKinley
The Blue Sword -------------- Robin McKinley
Chronicles of Solace -------------- Roger MacBride Allen
Chronicles of Amber -------------- Roger Zelazny
Warhammer 40k -------------- Sandy Mitchell
Night Watch Tetralogy -------------- Sergei Lukyanenko
The Eyes of the Dragon -------------- Stephen King
The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant the Unbeliever -------------- Stephen Donaldson
Robin McKinley -------------- Stephen R. Donaldson
Malazan -------------- Steven Erikson
Memory, Sorrow, and Thorn -------------- Tad Williams
Sword of Truth -------------- Terry Goodkind
Discworld -------------- Terry Pratchett
Age of the Five -------------- Trudi Canavan
The Black Magician -------------- Trudi Canavan
Gotrex and Felix -------------- William King & Nathan Long


P.S Thanks AGAIN to EVERYONE for this HUUUGE list, hopefully everyone will benefit from the list.
"Warning: AA posts may cause severe urges to buy or rent games you may not have been interested in, known about or would normally consider playing. If you experience sudden urges to purchase said games please consult your wallet, bank account or significant other to see if these games are right for you and your budget."
User avatar
Shyrtandros
 
Posts: 818
Joined: Thu Dec 10, 2009 7:54 am

PreviousNext

Return to Arkham Asylum

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Delphineas and 1 guest


Remove Advertisements

Who is online

In total there are 2 users online :: 1 registered, 0 hidden and 1 guest (based on users active over the past 5 minutes)
Most users ever online was 380 on Tue Oct 14, 2008 6:28 pm

Users browsing this forum: Delphineas and 1 guest