Dungeon Finder: Call to Arms

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Dungeon Finder: Call to Arms

Postby Shoju » Thu Apr 07, 2011 4:36 am

It happened. Blizzard caved, and is now rewarding the class that is least represented in the Dungeon Finder more rewards.

I'm really not happy with this system. I shouldn't have to wave off my guildies to "call to arms" for extra rewards. It feels like if tanks are being called to arms (and I'm pretty sure that they will be for........ever, I need to not let my guildies run with me so that I cna get their rewards, which in turn only means that those who would have had a tank for a run now wont.

Color me unimpressed.
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Re: Dungeon Finder: Call to Arms

Postby sherck » Thu Apr 07, 2011 4:41 am

I am not that hard over on it, actually. I think they struck a good middle ground.

Now, I would totally agree with your viewpoint IF Blizzard had attached "real" rewards to the CtA. As in Victory Points or possible epics or whatever; this would pretty much make participating in CtA mandatory for "serious" progression tanks and healers.

However, a little extra cash or the shot at a rare gem is not going to force tanks to forsake their guildies for random runs.

The shot at non-combat pets and mounts is actually pretty exciting for many people (not me) and does not effect their game in the least. It is eye candy. Again, some tanks will want to shoot for them and will do the random....but many tanks will not care and will continue to group with their guildies except at off times when no one is around and then they say "what the heck."

I read this last night after raid and went "hmmmmm, Blizzard had a good idea." Not tying gear progression to CtA is what makes it good, IMO.

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Re: Dungeon Finder: Call to Arms

Postby Aerron » Thu Apr 07, 2011 5:11 am

As someone with 3 tanking toons, I'm welcoming this change warmly.

At most, I run one heroic, maybe two with the guild. My main has nothing left to buy from the VP vendor for either his Prot or Ret set, my warrior alt is pretty much at the point where he'd have to start Raiding to progress any further, and my DK is just getting to the point where he's ready for heroics.

This change is enough that I'm looking forward to getting back into heroics on my main. Whereas before I'd likely be looking at going with only my DK in a couple of weeks, now there's a good shot I'll run some solo-queue'd randoms on my other two, much better equipped, characters.

Further, before this announcement, chances were good I'd be only running ZA/ZG post-patch. Now I'm might just sign up for the "lesser" heroics, because hey, shot at a free mount. Again, a random pug somewhere is about to get a well-geared tank or two.

I'm still going to run with my guild, but now this gives my toons who otherwise sit on the shelf until raid time, a chance to come back out and get some playtime.
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Re: Dungeon Finder: Call to Arms

Postby Aubade » Thu Apr 07, 2011 5:24 am

I will run heroics until i get all the mounts.

I've had 85 anzu kills and about 60 Kael'thas kills, still no mounts. now that I have another source, i will do it like mad.
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Re: Dungeon Finder: Call to Arms

Postby Shoju » Thu Apr 07, 2011 5:30 am

Aubade wrote:I will run heroics until i get all the mounts.

I've had 85 anzu kills and about 60 Kael'thas kills, still no mounts. now that I have another source, i will do it like mad.


If they offer the Skadi Mount, maybe. 125 kills of skadi, and no mount. I haven't farmed Anzu as hard in the past couple of months. But the skadi mount, that would be very enticing. I have Kael'thas and Deathcharger mounts already.

It is just irritating that it needs to be Solo queue. That is really where it fails for me.
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Re: Dungeon Finder: Call to Arms

Postby Aerron » Thu Apr 07, 2011 5:48 am

Shoju wrote:It is just irritating that it needs to be Solo queue. That is really where it fails for me.


I think that's the part we all grit our teeth at. Nothing's perfect.

Look at it this way though - if you're like me, you only run heroics with guildies, pugging maybe one or two spots. So for those DPS solo in the queue, you're not really doing them any good. But currently, knowing that the talent will be of a wide variety, that abuse is abundant, that repair bills are expensive and I'm not furthering the chances of success for my guild, what incentive do I have to PuG?

Sounds very much like getting tanks out of "guild only" mentalities is on Blizzard's docket.

For the reasons above, there's already "rewards" for doing mostly guild or guild only runs. I will continue to do those. But now there's an actual reason to step outside of my comfort zone maybe once a day and see how the other half lives.
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Re: Dungeon Finder: Call to Arms

Postby Dashdar » Thu Apr 07, 2011 6:16 am

I just don't think the reward is worth the frustration.

I like pets and mounts, but if I will get the ones I already have, that's just going to annoy me. And, I like to run with people in my guild or that I know. So I don't like that I'd have to solo Q for this.

If it was a random that was not a guild run, and that a pet or mount that you did not already have had a chance to drop, I'd consider doing this once or twice a day. But as it stands, I'd rather work on an alt or go gather for raid prep and prospecting.
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Re: Dungeon Finder: Call to Arms

Postby Shyrtandros » Thu Apr 07, 2011 6:31 am

I must live in a cave, haven't heard of this yet..

Copy + Paste for work impaired please?
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Re: Dungeon Finder: Call to Arms

Postby Dashdar » Thu Apr 07, 2011 6:54 am

Shyrtandros wrote:I must live in a cave, haven't heard of this yet..

Copy + Paste for work impaired please?


In patch 4.1 we'll be introducing Dungeon Finder: Call to Arms, a new system intended to lower queue times. Call to Arms will automatically detect which class role is currently the least represented in the queue, and offer them additional rewards for entering the Dungeon Finder queue and completing a random level-85 Heroic dungeon.

Any time the Dungeon Finder queue is longer than a few minutes for level-85 Heroics, the Call to Arms system kicks in and determines which role is the least represented. In the case of tanking being the least represented role, the "Call to Arms: Tanks" icon will display in the Dungeon Finder UI menu where class roles are selected, and will also display on the UI when the queue pops and you are selected to enter a dungeon. Regardless of your role, you'll always be able to see which role currently has been Called to Arms, if any.

Call to Arms is meant to lower wait times by offering additional rewards for queuing as the currently least represented role. To be eligible for the additional rewards you must solo queue for a random level-85 Heroic in the role that is currently being Called to Arms, and complete the dungeon by killing the final boss. Every time you hit these requirements (there is no daily limit) you'll receive a goodie bag that will contain some gold, a chance at a rare gem, a chance at a flask/elixir (determined by spec), a good chance of receiving a non-combat pet (including cross faction pets), and a very rare chance at receiving a mount. The pets offered come from a wide variety of sources, and include companions like the Razzashi Hatchling, Cockatiel, and Tiny Sporebat, but the mounts are those specifically only available through dungeons (not raids), like the Reins of the Raven Lord from Sethekk Halls, Swift White Hawkstrider from Magister's Terrace, and Deathcharger's Reins from Stratholme.

This system is meant to address the unacceptable queue times currently being experienced by those that queue for the DPS role at max level. The long queue times are, of course, caused by a very simple lack of representation in the Dungeon Finder by tanks, and to some extent healers. We don't feel the tanking and healing roles have any inherent issues that are causing the representation disparity, except that fulfilling them carries more responsibility. Understandably, players prefer to take on that responsibility in more organized situations than what the Dungeon Finder offers, but perhaps we can bribe them a little. While this system gives tanks and healers something extra, the incentive is being provided so that we can help players in the DPS role get into more dungeons, get better gear, and continue progressing.

While the gold, gems, flasks, and elixirs are OK incentives, we knew we needed something more substantial. We had briefly considered Valor Points and epics, but decided that wouldn't be working toward the goal of helping DPS players progress, and ultimately wouldn't keep tanks and healers in the Dungeon Finder system for very long. We settled on pets and dungeon-found mounts as they’re cosmetic/achievement items that players tend to try to get on their own, so why not change that up and offer them a chance to get some of those elusive pets and mounts in a way that also helps other players? Even if they don't get a pet or mount, or get one they already have, the gold and other goodies still feel rewarding enough that it won't feel like a waste of effort.

We think it's a pretty solid incentive to get tanks and healers queuing, give max-level players another way to collect the pets and mounts they so desire, and above all, to improve wait times for DPS players sitting in queues. In the case of lower level dungeons, it's actually not uncommon for DPS to be the least represented role, and so if this new system works out and we're pleased with the results, we may consider applying this same mechanic to lower level dungeons as well.
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Re: Dungeon Finder: Call to Arms

Postby Aubade » Thu Apr 07, 2011 6:58 am

Aerron wrote:
Shoju wrote:It is just irritating that it needs to be Solo queue. That is really where it fails for me.


I think that's the part we all grit our teeth at. Nothing's perfect.



you clearly need the awbade solution.

noone in my guild will be suprised when i say

"F**k you, I want mounts, I'm solo Qing."

Problem solved.
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Re: Dungeon Finder: Call to Arms

Postby Epimer » Thu Apr 07, 2011 6:59 am

Wild horses couldn't drag me back into tanking randoms for the dregs of LFD. Not even the Baron's.
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Re: Dungeon Finder: Call to Arms

Postby knaughty » Thu Apr 07, 2011 7:09 am

Already being done to death in the 4.1 PTR thread.

Page 40 onwards.
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Re: Dungeon Finder: Call to Arms

Postby Dashdar » Thu Apr 07, 2011 7:10 am

knaughty wrote:Already being done to death in the 4.1 PTR thread.

Page 40 onwards.


Yeah It's great to watch for a laugh.
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Re: Dungeon Finder: Call to Arms

Postby Skye1013 » Thu Apr 07, 2011 7:12 am

Every time you hit these requirements (there is no daily limit) you'll receive a goodie bag that will contain some gold, a chance at a rare gem, a chance at a flask/elixir (determined by spec), a good chance of receiving a non-combat pet (including cross faction pets), and a very rare chance at receiving a mount.

Because gem prices aren't horrible enough as is...

Though I do like the mount chance, and it gives me a better chance to receive them on my horde main, since he only solo queues anyway...
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Re: Dungeon Finder: Call to Arms

Postby knaughty » Thu Apr 07, 2011 7:13 am

Shoju wrote:It is just irritating that it needs to be Solo queue. That is really where it fails for me.


That's the main part that makes it a logical idea.

A large part of the reason the DPS queue is so freaking long is that tanks can share their zero minute queue with their friends. You're reducing their heal/DPS queue length to nothing at the expense of other heal/DPS.
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